[Avodah] border issues

[Eli Turkel]

<<As I understand it, the territories that were conquered by war have
kedusha only so long as we're living there.  But the territories that
were granted to us by the goyim have permanent kedusha.  I remember
seeing a map that showed sort of a butterfly-shaped area, roughly
equivalent to Judea and Samaria and a mirror image of it to the east
of the Jordan River, and said that was the extent of the return in
Persian times. >>

I am not sure what map this is. As far as I know the area that was Jewish in
the times
of Ezra and Nechemia was Jerusalem and its immediate surroundings. Most of
the
area in Bayit Sheni was conquered by the Hashmanoim kings. The status of
these
lands seems to be in dispute.

In terms of disputes it is practically impossible that there was no
machloket until the
days of the "zugot".  We know that there was a machloket whether David was
fir to be
king being a descendant of Ruth the Moabite. Thus, according to some
opinions the
entire descendants of Ruth were not eligible to get married, not a minor
concern.

Tanach tells that there were long periods when Avoda Zara was dominant in
Judah
and Torah learning almost disappeared to the extent that portions of te
written Torah
were unknown (presumably outside a very small circle).

I recent attended an archaeology retreat. One of the talks was on the
incidence of pig bones
in Israel. It seems that it was quite common in Samaria but quite rare in
Judah. My
understanding is that according to archaeologists the Northern and Southern
kingdoms
were fundamentally different and not just questions of individual kings that
worshiped
idols  or visited the Temple in Jerusalem

-- 
Eli Turkel
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