[Avodah] who is going to Gehenim

[Eliyahu Grossman]

Actually, Berashit 11:1 does says that "kol". That the entire (kol) earth
was of a single purpose (united in a common goal) and that THEY migrated and
THEY found and THEY settled and THEY said. So it's like a mass migration
before they get wacked. Ok, one could separate "kol", but one can also
retain it. 

And so, I suppose, those that interpret this as an evil act would certainly
want to exclude Avraham (and Noach and his sons too!), while those who do
not see it as anything but a righteous act, a people united in one purpose,
don't have that kind of problem with it. And of those who see it as an evil
act, you end up having to discard "kol", or put it aside to just mean
"initially" (insertion), and then you can have the cute midrash of little
Avraham breaking his father's idols and skipping out on the project, or you
can discard that midrash and accept the one where he is far older and the
time of the tower is over where he discovers.

They all work, depending on what you are trying to teach. I can go along
with any of them - Although I do have a problem with Pharaoh being the king
of Ninveh and doing tsh'uvah, but hey, it could have happened! ;) 

I wasn't familiar with Yonah Rabbah - thanks for that.

Eliyahu Grossman


<----[Snipped Original]-------------------->
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:06:13 -0400
From: Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org>
Subject: Re: [Avodah] who is going to Gehenim

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 09:26:43PM +0200, Eliyahu Grossman wrote:
: While there are some Midrashim that say that the Tower of Bavel was built
as
: a rebellion, the actual language of the text in Berashit doesn't say it at
: all...

But in terms of drawing a lesson for ourselves, this is a distinction
without a difference. Both are sources.

:      Would one say that Avraham was rebelling against Him, since it says
: that EVERYONE was participating, so Avraham was making those bricks just
: like everyone else?

If you're working with the text itself (as you did before), the word "kol"
isn't there. So it needn't have been all the "benei adam".

If you're drawing lessons from maamarei Chazal, see the first paragraph of
Yonah Rabba. According to this, two patriarchs didn't participate in Migdal
Bavel -- Avraham and Ashur. Ashur was rewarded in two ways: First, the gift
of the holy script, Kesav Ashuris, was given to the nation he founded.
Second, that nation was given a second chance when Hashem sent Yonah to
their capital, Nineveih.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha