[Avodah] kesubos 30a/ burning grain.....

[Danny Schoemann]

R' Harvey Benton
> In kesubos 30a there is a discussion in the gemmara if one is chayav for the
> grain if one (cv) burns a stack of grain on shabbas/yom kippur,since the person
> is chayav the greater punishment of mitah/kares, and thus pattur of the monetary
> chova for the grain. my question is, why would the owner of the grain have to
> lose out because of a chova/punishiment (chova of his life) to Hashem?

>From memory:
This rule - called "Kim Lay B'deraba Menie" - that he gets the more
serious punishment - is learned from a Posuk; that we punish him for
one sin and not for 2.

Once we have the Posuk, asking "logic" questions against the Posuk
won't be very fruitful.

Obviously, if you are going to give a fellow a one punishment - but he
did multiple sins - you are going to give him the biggest punishment.

In this case we don't even need that logic; he was Mechalel Yom Kipour
first - when he lit the match, and only later was he Chayav for the
grain being burnt.


>
> By Yom Kippur kapara inyanim, we are taught that one needs to first clear up the
> chovos one has with ben adam l'chaveiro, and then Hashem will absolve you of the
> chovos you have to him (e.g. forgive you), but here, in the burning-grain
> scenario, it seems just the opposite, namely that the chovos or punishments due
> to Shamayim, come first.......why would that be??

Because as long as you haven't solved the bein adam l'chaveiro issues,
Hashem cannot forgive you, since prerequisite of Teshuva are "regret
and abandoning the sin".

Until you pay him and ask for his forgiveness, you are still doing the
sin, and there's nothing for Hashem to forgive, yet.

Hope this gives you a start, so you can investigate further.

- Danny