[Avodah] The Acharonim and Soft Matza

[Meir Rabi]

R Micha, I do not attempt to dispute your analysis of history. But I am not
attempting to determine the history of hard and soft Matza and the
transition from one to the other.
I am observing that the notion of soft Matza being a perfectly acceptable
option is quite clearly assumed by these major Acharonim.
For example, I assume that round circular Succos are not very common neither
are Succos with steepled roofs, but that would not stop the Poskim making an
observation about such Succos regarding some particular Halachic discussion.
But if a Minhag would have taken hold of not constructing such Succos, the
Poskim would not use these examples in their discussions, unless they were
discussing BeShaAs HadChak situations.

So, I think it is compelling from these major Acharonim, that no Minhag of
any strength exists suggesting that only hard Matzos are to be used.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:31 AM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 03:45:17AM +1100, Meir Rabi wrote:
> : Why not be less startled and re-evaluate your assertion that soft Matza
> : was almost certainly out of use amongst Ashkenasim for decades before
> : they wrote their Halachot. Perhaps, as is suggested by their expression,
> : soft Matza was still at least a fresh memory if not an actual fact
> amongst
> : certain groups and it is these that the Poskim address their comments.
>
> I have met too many people from the Lithuania in which the AhS and
> MB lived. R' Yechiel Michl Epstein was niftar in 1908, RYMK, in 1933.
>
> If the people I met remembered soft matzos at their seder table,
> they never mentioned it. For that matter, that generation's children
> and grandchildren are the ones who think that crispy matzah was what
> Ashkenazim "always" did.
>
> /Some/ rumor would have persisted.
>
> Other data points... The matzah machine was invented by Isaac Singer in
> 1838, and in 1888 Dov Behr (who later took the surname Manischewitz),
> mass produced machine matzos. In the machloqes that ensued, I do not
> recall anyone expressing a problem with their crispiness. So it would seem
> crispiness was already the norm by 1888.
>
> And the Jewish Encylopedia (1901-1906)
> <http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=305&letter=M>:
>    The thickness of the mazzah must not exceed the size of a closed
>    fist, four fingers or four inches, which was the thickness of the
>    show bread. A later custom was to make mazzah one finger thick
>    ("Bet Hillel," Yoreh De'ah, No. 96). In modern times the mazzah is
>    much thinner, varying from four to five mazzot to the inch, and is
>    made in round form about twelve inches in diameter.
>
> Unless you think they were crepes... Notice also (if you pull up the
> article) by 1906, no one in England thought about discussing the subject
> of soft vs crispy. I'm convinced it was 50 years in the past by then.
>
> My guess is that the reidel (Eng: docker, the roller with the pins that
> make holes) probably enabled the shift.
>
> But again my primary reason is that among the people who think Ashk
> matzah /has/ to be crispy are people too close in time to the AhS and
> MB to believe so much was forgotten so quickly.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
> --
> Micha Berger             "As long as the candle is still burning,
> micha at aishdas.org        it is still possible to accomplish and to
> http://www.aishdas.org   mend."
> Fax: (270) 514-1507          - Anonymous shoemaker to R' Yisrael Salanter
>
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