[Avodah] who is going to Gehenim

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 02:47:47PM +1100, SBA wrote:
: Here's what Chazal say (quoted by Rashi in Parsha Bo) BK 60:
: "Kivun sheniten reshus lamashchis - eino mavchin bein tzadikim lereshaim,
: velo od  ela shemas'chil min hatzadikim techila"

You can't take this too far. After all, there is perpetually someone
out of the 7 billion plus human beings who is chayav misah. If you say
that this brings the mashchis to the world who could then kill anyone --
leis din veleis Dayan, hashgachah peratis is out the window, etc...

Obviously, therefore, this gemara has to be understood specifically
within its limited context.

The gemara (BK 60a) is saying that when a community deserves punishment
as a corporate entity, one can't assume the most guilty people in the
community are the ones who will bear the brunt of it -- and that in fact
it will start with the tzadiqim. R' Yoseif's maqoros are makas bekhoros
(Shemos 12:22) and Yechezqeil's hasra'ah about galus Bavel (21:8),
"vehikhrasi mimmeikh tzadiq verasha". This sets R' Yoseif to tears until
Abayei (his talmid) says it's letovasam -- so that they are spared living
through the tragedy.

But in any case, it's specifically about cases where hashgachah minis
and hashgachah peratis collide.

I'm arguing that when the overwhelming majority don't even know their
country did something, even if I were to think that something was in
proportion to the tragedy, it's still not a time when Hashem would send
the mashchis bedavqa in the role of onesh. It defies din, and we learn
from Sedom vaAmorah to expect not only din, but rachamim. Hashem judges
a nation not by a guilty minority, but by whether there is a minority
still around capable of uplifting the majority.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
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