[Avodah] More Examples of "Minhagim" That Lead to Kulos

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 02:52:17AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> Dancing on Simchas Torah is riqud on Yom Tov. Is it not a minhag? (Whether
>> or not your particular eidah participates.)

> AIUI, riqud means dancing that involves both feet leaving the ground at
> the same time; dancing in a circle with one foot always on the ground is
> machol, and that's permitted.

AIUI, riqud means hammering out a beat with your feet, which is why it's
included in a taqanah about instruments. Like when yeshiva bachurim
pound one foot much harder (and well within the ring) than the other,
so as to drum on the floor.

But this is why I included dancing on Shabbos as among the minhagim that
"require qulah-shopping to justify". Yes, it can be justified; but you're
hard pressed to find anyone discuss chiluqim between mutar dancing and
technical riqud until AFTER the oilem were nohagim lehaqeil.


On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:42:31AM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: To put this in terms of Beis Shammai is to unnecessarily over-dramatize
: it. It's the Rama.

OC 271:12, "veyeish omerim", citing the Rosh, the Mordechai, Hagahos
Maimonios, and Tur. " ... Vekhein haminhag pashut bemedinos eilu" (written
in Cracow, remember), "ve'ein leshanos" -- except at the seder. I think
the wording points to the Rama /not/ particularly liking it, but living
with minhag hamaqom. And yet that's not what Poland did in the MB's day,
so they were meshaneh...

Is understanding why these rishonim hold like Beis Shammai rather than
Beis Hillel is easier to understand???

So, while I disagree about "over-dramatize" -- it's equally dramatic --
I will acknowledge that the tehcnical acknowledgment of the qulah may
well predate (or even have caused) the minhag rather than the other way
around, and take it off the list.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
micha at aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
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