[Avodah] Davening Sefer Korbanos

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 11:09:49AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> I fail to see how this relates to the Ramban. According to the Ramban,
>> the only point of qorbanos is to do an action beyond speech. Dibbur
>> is already covered by vidui. How does it suffice for anything? Why not
>> argue that qorban, when impossible, is simply that -- impossible?

> Because it's possible to do *something*.  It's possible to do a maaseh
> of sorts; it's not a substitute for a real maaseh if that's possible,
> but if it isn't then at least it scrapes in on a technicality.

Yeah, that's what you said the first time, and is pretty much what the
gemara says. But now, back to the Ramban...

The Rmaban says the entire point of qorbanos is maaseh, in an explicit
contrast to dibbur. How then can dibbur ever be a substitute? It would
make sense to suggest a different maaseh, eg miqvah. Or swinging a
chicken over your head and then donating it for aniyim to have a se'udah.
(Unless the Ramban holds like the SA that that would be shechutei chutz.)

But more dibbur? That doesn't cover all three planes of human activity.

Mashal lemah hadavar domeh: Say I got mud on my suit. After Shabbos,
when the mud is dry, I would need to scrape off the mud, and then wash
out the remaining stain. If I don't have access to water, I can't just
"scrape in on a technicality" -- the brown soaked into the clothing
must be washed, not scraped some more.

Similarly, the Ramban is saying there must be thought, speech and deed.
That vidui because it's speech, can not accomplish what qorban can on
the plane of maaseh. Since the problem with vidui is that it's speech,
how would talking about maasios help?

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
micha at aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
http://www.aishdas.org    'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
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