[Avodah] Non-Jews Begin to Embrace Ketubah Wedding

[Daniel Eidensohn]

On 3/1/2011 8:07 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 07:21:48PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
>>>       ... yeish leesor mitzad zeh atzmo
>>>       af im lo yavo lidei qilqul kelal
>>>       shelo yit'u lomar shesagi raq beqidushin shelah...
>>> And "hu issur gamur uvarur mitzad shikhechas hadin veshinui hadin."
>>> Who are the future people making this error if not onlookers and those
>>> they speak to?
>> The participants themselves, of course.  If he meant onlookers he would
>> have said so.
> He is speaking of future weddings. IOW, general impression of the community
> if we allow ring exchange to become a norm.
>
> ...
>>> You presume RMF is talking only about when her intent is that it's
>>> part of the wedding ceremony.
>> Absolutely.  Not only that it's part of the ceremony, but that it's
>> *an act of kiddushin*. ...
> It's during the ceremony either way. You're insisting the iqar is the
> participants' intent that it be part of what makes qiddushin chal. Again,
> I don't see how that difference has much to do with the problem RMF is
> trying to avoid.
>
> ...
>>> I'm noting that he discusses it simply looking to others
>> Again, he does not mention others, he doesn't hint at them, they simply
>> don't exist in the teshuvah.  You're making them up.
> He speaks of future weddings. That's others.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
My understanding is as you say - he cites the Yam Shel Shlomo BK in 
other places where the issue is that an act will cause the halacha to 
forgotten or misunderstood in the future.