[Avodah] Non-Jews Begin to Embrace Ketubah Wedding

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 07:21:48PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
>>      ... yeish leesor mitzad zeh atzmo
>>      af im lo yavo lidei qilqul kelal
>>      shelo yit'u lomar shesagi raq beqidushin shelah...

>> And "hu issur gamur uvarur mitzad shikhechas hadin veshinui hadin."

>> Who are the future people making this error if not onlookers and those
>> they speak to?

> The participants themselves, of course.  If he meant onlookers he would
> have said so.

He is speaking of future weddings. IOW, general impression of the community
if we allow ring exchange to become a norm.

...
>> You presume RMF is talking only about when her intent is that it's
>> part of the wedding ceremony.

> Absolutely.  Not only that it's part of the ceremony, but that it's
> *an act of kiddushin*. ...

It's during the ceremony either way. You're insisting the iqar is the
participants' intent that it be part of what makes qiddushin chal. Again,
I don't see how that difference has much to do with the problem RMF is
trying to avoid.

...
>> I'm noting that he discusses it simply looking to others

> Again, he does not mention others, he doesn't hint at them, they simply
> don't exist in the teshuvah.  You're making them up.

He speaks of future weddings. That's others.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             For a mitzvah is a lamp,
micha at aishdas.org        And the Torah, its light.
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