[Avodah] Non-Jews Begin to Embrace Ketubah Wedding

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 04:43:33PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
>> if there is an announcement that prevents people
>> from mistaking what's going on. That's pretty harsh.

> You seem to think RMF is worried about onlookers who have no idea what's
> going on.  I don't know where you got such an idea.  This has nothing to
> do with onlookers.

Then why does RMF write:
    ... velakhein be'son maaseh sheyigrom sheyishkechu
    hadin ha'emes...

And:
    ... yeish leesor mitzad zeh atzmo
    af im lo yavo lidei qilqul kelal
    shelo yit'u lomar shesagi raq beqidushin shelah...

And "hu issur gamur uvarur mitzad shikhechas hadin veshinui hadin."

Who are the future people making this error if not onlookers and those
they speak to?

Obviously when RMF writes "qidushin", he doesn't mean it, since a woman
giving a man a ring isn't qidushin. So what does he mean? Your diyuq
halashon in a term that has to have meant loosely is causing you to read
your conclusion into the words.

You presume RMF is talking only about when her intent is that it's part of
the wedding ceremony. I'm noting that he discusses it simply looking
to others like it's part of the wedding. At least half of the teshuvah
is about avoiding future ta'us, including defending this as grounds for
an issur from question based on Abba's question on Abayei. Thus, it's
not an issue of intent, it's an issue of timing -- it's during the window
people think of as the the wedding.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man is a drop of intellect drowning in a sea
micha at aishdas.org        of instincts.
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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