[Avodah] customs under the chuppa

[Harry Maryles]

On Sat, 1/15/11, Eli Turkel <eliturkel at gmail.com> wrote:
> In a more serious vein the custom in DL weddings has been to sing
> "Im eshkachech ..." either in the middle or end of the chupa and then
> break the glass and shout mazel tov.

>> In recent weddings this has been changed because some rabbis objected to
>> saying mazal tov over the breaking of the cup which symbolizes the destroyed Temple.
>> Thus, the latest minhag is to break the glass in the middle of the song and
>> continue singing. After the song is finished the crowd shouts mazal tov and so there
>> is no direct connection between the mazal tov and the breaking of the glass

Im Eshkachech was sung at all four of my children's weddings -- just
prior to breaking the glass.

But I don't like this new idea of breaking the glass in the middle of
the song. It is a very strong mihag Yisroel to break the glass as a
momentary Zecher L'Churban and then go immediately back to the Simchas
Chasan V'Kallah. Singing Im Eshkachech as a prelude makes that moment
more poignant and meaningful. But breaking a glass in the middle of the
song seems to me to be an overly dramatic extension of the moment and
it mingles the Zecher with the song. That seems inappropriate to me.

[Email #2. -micha]

On Sun, 1/16/11, Eli Turkel <eliturkel at gmail.com> wrote:
> ROY among others objects to saying mazal tov immediately after the
> breaking of the glass.
> This is an attempt to avoid the objections that breaking the glass is
> for sadness rather then the opportunity for simcha of mazal tov
 
I understand the reason and I appreciate who said it. But I still don't
like it. This is one of the most widespread Mihagim in Klal Yisroel.

Changing it based on what what a current Posek syas seems to be what
Dr. Chaim Soloveitchik was talking about when he said that the reason we
are moving to the right is because we no longer follow our own Mesorah
but instead look in a book.

Although ROY is not a book, he is nonetheless trying to change a centuries
old tradition. I'm sure that his rationale for changing it occurred
to many Poskim of the past. But it did nto occur to them to change the
custom in any case. I think that our Mesorah for a strong Minhag that
admittedly is not all that important and certainly not an Ikuv Halachacly
to anything related to the Chasan V'Kallah -- should not be changed.

[Email #3. -micha]

On Sun, 1/16/11, Eli Turkel <eliturkel at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am completely at a loss.
> The cistom of singing im eshkachech is a modern custom. I have never
> seen it at a charedi wedding. I was told that when they sang it in the US
> RYBS stopped them and said he didnt agree to new minhagim. Given that
> I find it hard to say that breking the glass in the middle or end of
> the song is a new minhag.

I agree that Im Eshkacheh is a modern innovation. But I don't see it as
much as the changing of a minhag as is putting an existing Minhag into
the middle of a song.

My son's wedding had very Charedi Gedolim under thw Chuppah: Rav Avraham
Pam was Mesader Kedushin and Rav Aharon Schechter read the Kesubah. Rabbi
Dovid Zucker, Rosh Kollel of the CCK (Lakewood) and Rav Yehoshua Heshel
Eichenstein were the Edei Kedushin. Then HTC RY, Rav Shlomo Morgenstern,
and Rav Aharon Soloveichik, ZTL both had Brachos under the Chuppah. None
of them raised an eybrow at 'Im Eshkachech. I wonder if that would have
been true had the glass been broken in the middle of the song.

I don't know... maybe I'm over-valuing the importance of leaving things
alone here. But it seems to me that the very singing of Im Eshkachech
should take care of the problem ROY has with not paying enough attention
to the meaning of breaking the glass. In fact Rabbi Zev Cohen a Charedi
Rav in Chicago who had the same problem that ROY did -- accepts singing
Im Eshkachech as the best way to deal with ROY's problem. I think doing
anything more is overkill and counter prodcutive as it changes things
too much.

HM