[Avodah] Fwd: Re: Truth and the Rambam

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 08:52:37AM -0400, David Riceman wrote:
> There's a second important terminological distinction: sometimes the
> Rambam uses Torah in a wide sense, to include philosophy, and sometimes in
> a narrow sense, to include only interpretations of scripture or halacha.
> See the beginning of the Rambam's introduction to MN "It is not here
> intended to explain all of these expression to ... those who confine
> their attention to the study of the holy Law, I mean the canonical law
> alone; for the true knowledge of the Torah is the special aim of this
> and similar works (tr. Friedlander p. 2)," and see HYhT 4:13.

> So yes, in addition to indirectly helping the study of metaphysics by
> ensuring a settled community (cf. H. Teshuva 9:1) the Torah directly
> helps by inculcating some metaphysical doctrines, but by no means all
> of them. See the Rambam's introductory epistle to the MN, where he
> emphasizes the importance of studying philosophy in an orderly way,
> not in the disorderly way induced by Talmud Torah.

> To quote the palace metaphor "Those who arrive at the palace but go round
> about it are those who devote themselves exclusively to the study of the
> practical law; they believe traditionally in true principles of faith,
> and learn the practical worship of God, but are not trained in philosophic
> treatment of the principles of the Law, and do not endeavor to establish
> the truth of their faith by proof. (tr. Friedlander pp. 384-385)"

I'm not sure of the relevence of any of this.

I simply wrote that based on those sections of the Moreh, it appears
that mitzvos were given as a tool by which one can know more about G-d.
Not that there is any guarantee they will be used that way, or that the
person will succeed.

As he writes in Peirush haMishnayos about "Ratzah HQBH lezakos es
Yisrael lefikhakh hirba lahem Torah umitzvos." Many mitzvos mean many
opportunities to have that moment of epiphany in which the requisite
yedi'ah for OhB dawns on the person. Which is also how "yeish mi sheqoneh
olamo besha'ah achas" -- they have that epiphany without trying for it
unsuccessfully for years beforehand.

>>  So bichlal I would say the Rambam's notion of life's purpose is more
>>  the study of theology than metaphysics.

> This is an anachronism; for the Rambam and his contemporaries theology
> and metaphysics were the same subject.

Still, the essence is knowing about the Borei, whether or not one knows
the rest of metaphysics. Regardless of whether the Rambam had the notion
of these being different disciplines.

...
>>  Thus, what the law was becomes a truth to track down. There is no legal
>>  process shaping that law over time; pesaq is either getting to one's
>>  best understanding of what Moshe was told, or an act of getting into
>>  the heads of the enacting Beis Din. Original intent.

>>  This is what I'm saying is uniquely Rambam.

> Really? See Ish HaHalacha (tr. Kaplan pp.37-38): "The ideal of halakhic
> man is the redemption of the world ... via the adaptation of empirical
> reality to the ideal patterns of halakha." Admittedly RYBS was influenced
> by the Rambam. But even the Ramban, in the introduction to Milhamot
> HaShem, agrees that when the Rif's opinion seems inexplicable we shouldn't
> take it as precedent.

I'm not sure how this indicates original intent. In fact, the Ish
haHalakhah finds resolutiuon of creative man and religious man through a
collaborative partnership with the Almighty. RYBS emphasizes the notion
that Hashem gave us a legal process with which to create no less than
I have.

...
>>  The posqim are the ones who are learning lower-case-g gemara, not just
>>  relying on mishnah (Mishnah or Mishneh Torah). The hamon am who never
>>  go beyond the MT aren't expected to have to detemine the original intent
>>  of the law because they aren't to pasqen for themselves.

> I think that's wrong. Remember he advises his student to look at the
> gemara only when the Rif and the Rambam disagree. He was hoping to
> supplant the gemara.

He tells them it's an inefficient use of time. It's also unclear to
me he thought he was writing poseqim or future poseqim. More to follow.

>>  It can't be done using MT as a [base] text.

> Why not?

Because isn't that what the haqdamah to the Yad says in #40-41? That
the originals are for the "me'at bemispar" who have "da'as rechavah,
nefesh chakhomoh, uzeman arukh", and the Yad is for "sedurah befi hakol"
-- the masses?

I see this as saying the Yad only replaces the originals for the masses.
Which makes his advice to his students (non-poseqim) represent the same
thought as what he writes the poseqim in Luneil. Two audiences, one
school of thought. Rather than politely fostering in Luneil an approach
he is trying to replace in his own qehillah. (Which is what I understood
you as suggesting.)

This is still quite a distance from my original topic -- whether the
Rambam sees halakhah as a legal process, a stream down time of evolving
interpretations of law, rather than a scientific process of determining
original intent of the Author of the Torah or the beis din who legislated
a derabban. After all, if he feels his code describes the law as originally
intended, it's only worthwhile to go to the source when you can prove
an error in the codification.

...
>>  To his talmidim, who are also therefore indirectly the Rif's talmidim,
>>  he tells them that the most likely places to find error are where he and
>>  the Rif didn't reach the same conclusion.

> Why does it matter whose talmidim they are? The halakha is only as they
> themselves see it. Furthermore, isn't it possible that the Rambam,
> who was greatly influenced by the Rif, is likely to make the same error?

Only if they have a reason to suspect an error, so they look and find an
error. Otherwise, the Rambam believes that a pesaq is binding on those
talmidim to whom it was nispasheit. (Haqdamah #32-22.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I always give much away,
micha at aishdas.org        and so gather happiness instead of pleasure.
http://www.aishdas.org           -  Rachel Levin Varnhagen
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