[Avodah] Vten Tal Umatar

[Saul Mashbaum]

RJoel Rich wrote:
>>>
I remember learning that a ben Ch"ul in eretz Yisrael tomorrow and planning
to return to ch"ul:
1. says vten tal Umatar while there
2.Continues to say it when back in ch"ul.
>>>


I live in Israel, and am presently visiting the States . Based on a tshuva
of RMF (IM OCh 2 (?) 102), I started saying  v'ten tal Umatar on 7
Marchesvan, as do bnei EY.
In that tshuva, RMF says that saying since rain is beneficial in the early
fall in chu"l, starting saying vten tal Umatar  from Marchesvan on even in
chu"l makes a lot of sense, based on tshuvot haRosh, klal 2 siman 10. He
cites the BY who says that the Rosh is correct "rak shemikol makom lo nahagu
kamoto".  Thus, anyone who is a special case (not part of the minhag) should
say v'ten tal Umatar even before the chu"l time.  RMF says this explicitly
about my case (ben EY), and IMO we can apply this to RJR's second case (ben
chu"l shehitchil b'EY v'chazar l'chu"l) as well.

The Rama 117;2 states that one who says v'ten tal Umatar in a place which
needs rain need not repeat SE( we hold by the Rosh at least b'dieved).

However, R' Aharon Roz showed me Shu"t Knei Bosem of R. Meir Bransdorfer,
OCh 10;3 who says explicitly that even a ben chu"l who started to say v'ten
tal Umatar in EY *stops* saying it when he returns to chu"l, until Dec 4/5.
He cites Shut BTzel Hachochma vol. I 62, who supports this position.

Another possibility is suggested by R. Vozner is Shu"t Shevet Halevi -
saying v'ten tal Umatar in shomea t'filla in chu"l. This would apply to both
my case and RJR's second case.
He holds (unlike RMF) that rain is unneed in chu"l in the early fall, but
*anyone* can ask for rain in shomea t'filla starting 7 Marchesvan, the
requested rain being on behalf of bnei EY.

Saul Mashbaum
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