[Avodah] Benching at a wedding

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 02:31:07PM +0100, Benjamin Shaw wrote:
: When I go to a wedding I often want to leave before the offical benching
: has started. I see other benching without organizing a Ziman. Is this
: correct or should a Ziman be created?

First, welcome to the chevrah!

I think it's pretty open and shut, a zimun must be created if you
leave a zimun behind to fend for itself. When there are 11-19 people,
so that you get into a question of zimun with sheim and zimun without,
there it gets more complicated.

See the Qitzur SA 45:11 <http://www.kitzur.net/main.php?siman=45&nk=1>,
you need 6 people before 3 can leave the zimun, so that you're leaving
the others a zimun.

Similarly the Arukh haShulchan OC 193:6-7
    <http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%97_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%92#.D7.A1.D7.99.D7.9E.D7.9F_.D7.A7.D7.A6.D7.92_.D7.A1.D7.A2.D7.99.D7.A3_.D7.95>
    (shortened to <http://bit.ly/acrOBX>), who rules similarly, and
    saved me the effort of looking up the earlier sources.
Berakhos 45a <http://images.e-daf.com/DafImg.asp?ID=87&size=3>
SA OC 193:1
    <http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%97_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%92#.D7.A1.D7.A2.D7.99.D7.A3_.D7.90>
    (shortened to <http://bit.ly/bM9JpK>)


The question of leaving before Sheva Berakhos in particular is
non-trivial. It's discussed by the Tzitz Eliezer, who holds that the
prohibition is only in leaving between benching and the berakhos. The
Hanisuin keHilkhasam 14:84 (who I never heard of before) says that since
it's common to leave a wedding early, there is no obligation to stay
for Sheva Berakhos.

RMFeinstein in the IM holds that one may leave early if that is your
intent when washing, but it's better to stay. He also suggests that
a zimun made early at the wedding say the berakhah of "Asher Bara"
too. Personally, I never saw that done.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Rescue me from the desire to win every
micha at aishdas.org        argument and to always be right.
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