[Avodah] anti-meat rhetoric "according to Judaism"

[Jacob Farkas]

> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:49:17AM -0400, Jacob Farkas wrote:
> : I respectfully disagree. People have been eating pasture fed beef and
> : chicken up until the last few decades. This form of meat has not
> : become less affordable in its own right...
>
R Micha Berger:
> Are you sure? Demand has gone up, the number of farmers and the space
> on which they can raise poultry are cattle has declined.

This is effect masquerading as cause. The increase of demand is
undoubtedly influenced by the cheaper product. Shift to factory
farming and the cost to produce a pound of meat decreases. Small
farmers will always get squeezed out of the game when the big players
show up. If you can't make it as a small farmer, your farmland has no
value as farmland anymore. This was true with agriculture, as well.

R Micha Berger:
>
> But still, as you yourself write:
> :                This of course, allows for increased consumption within
> : the same budget...
>
> So yes, it is cheaper today. The criteria for avoiding tzaar baalei
> chayim are so low, that alone is enough to brand it something other than
> pointless cruelty to animals.

As I pointed out, there is no precedent in avoiding TBC regarding meat
production, and with good reason. In pasture raised animals and
poultry, there is no Tza'ar factor. So while it isn't pointless
cruelty like dogfighting, the entire shift in production from a method
that yields no Tza'ar, to a method that includes these horrible
conditions, is a shift based in higher regard for profits than animal
welfare.

It is a borderline call whether the conditions created via Factory
Farming are justified as avoiding the issur of TBC under the rubric of
Tzorekh. On the one hand, it is a valid, industry-wide practice that
produces food for people. On the other hand, how can we ignore that
process A produces Tza'ar when process B doesn't? Shouldn't the laws
of TBC steer us towards process B?

R Micha Berger:
>
> TBC isn't a blanket call to compassion on animals. There is easily
> arguable lifnim mishuras hadin calls for such compassion. Or even within
> the dinim of hilkhos dei'os. But not TBC, which is about avoiding cruelty
> for its own sake only.
>

Veal is undoubtedly cheaper if produced in factory farmed settings. We
already discussed RMF position regarding veal. Veal producers are not
sadists looking to inflict pain on calves, for its own sake. They just
ignore the conditions, because they are trying to produce veal at a
cheaper clip. Yes, this makes the product more affordable, yes, this
is a profit center for the companies. TBC is still acknowledged by
RMF, as it doesn't satisfy his understanding as Tzorekh.

--Jacob Farkas