[Avodah] Selling whiskey/bourbon

[rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]

I wrote
> The Hiluq Both HY and BH make is simple
> Drops of water in wine first is indeed bateil, in the batzeik it's too
> late. MGA 3 says the same.

> Batzir is not a  necessary hilluq at all

> BEH I will double check MB later at work.

NB CAVEAT: this is ALL k'daas ham'chabeir - not necessarily Ashkenazic
P'saq.!

MB 10 supports the hiluq is "b'seesah" - peirush fermentation as per
MGA 6 and RZS

However Bei'ur Halachah D"H "Ho'eel Uchvar Nisbatlu" says that this is
by no means the simple read of the M'chabeir

> Yeish camah shem'froshim divrei SA kifshuto d'afilu b'yayin gamur namei -
> mi'ut hammayim misbatlim b'mei peiros [lichora even OJ]

> Uch'fee shemashma be'emes meepashtus l'shon ham'chabeir she'siyeim
> "ho'eel uch'var nisbatlu qodem shelashu ho'eesah"

So my p'shat in the m'chabeir is as per Bei'ur Halachah's own P'shat in
the m'chabeir or iow "Ein m'chabeir yotsei meeday p'shuto!". :-)

Further down...
Daas Rif&Rambam that it's always OK to add even "harbei mayim" ot the
wine [first] and [then] to kneed l'chatcheelah. And so too pasqen hoq
yaakov and magein elef [and Richard Wolpoe - at least for S'pahrdim and
only drops not "harbei"]

Also note the GRA as quoted by BH is also maskim that "t'seesah" is not
the hiluq.


MB is indeed chosheish for ROV ACHARONIM. But I would venture that
M'chabeir himself is soveir like Rif& Rambam - and unlikely like MGA.
Would anyone really think that the da'as m'chabeir would be otherwise -
given it's the striaghtforward read anyway!?


Rema here is silent
AISI it's pashut
M'chabeir is not worried about fermentation

But Rema/Ashkenaz is chosheish for added water and is therefore machmeer
not to use matzah asheera!

So b'pashtus this is how I frame the debate

SA - drops of water are bateil until leesha
Rema - we ARE chosheish that those earlier drops of water might be
    machmitz at time of leesha

MGA et al. are IMHO reding this ch'shash into the M'chabeir itself -
v'tzorich iyyun why they think m'chabeir would be Holeiq on Rif/Rambam
when there is -after all - an easy way out of the conundrum!

ZP
RRW
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