[Avodah] reform and conservative

[T613K at aol.com]

From: Harry Maryles _hmaryles at yahoo.com_ (mailto:hmaryles at yahoo.com) 

>> I can't  believe there is a blanket Issur to not count a C or R Jew to a 
Minyan.  Should'nt it depend on his individual beliefs? Not every C or R 
Jew believes  fully in the Kefira of the Movement's ideologues....



There are  however 2 problems. 

1) How can we know for sure what they believe?  

 
>>>>>>
RHM mentioned another problem as his number 2 but I would have said, number 
 two, how can we know for sure that they are Jewish?
 
 
Just today a friend told me about a rift in his family that occurred when  
he was sitting shiva for his brother (who was not frum).  Two of the  ni
ftar's sons are BTs, the third is married to a Conservative convert.   When the 
niftar's  teenaged grandson showed up at the shiva house -- the  product of 
the mixed marriage --- and he was the tenth man, the two BTs  hurriedly 
phoned another friend to come make a minyan.  Since when do we  need eleven men 
to make a minyan?  You can see how that would cause hard  feelings.  The 
Conservative and Reform movements have created chaos and  havoc and now we 
Orthodox have to deal with the mess and ask each  other questions like, "Can we, 
should we, may we, must we, count C and R  Jews to a minyan?"
 
We have not even dealt with the question of counting the other type  of C 
and R Jews who have made up part of a C or R minyan all  their lives and are 
suddenly excluded from O minyanim -- I refer to the  female-type Jews.
 

--Toby  Katz
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