[Avodah] : Re: Women and kaddish

[Chana]

> From: Ben Waxman <ben1456 at zahav.net.il>
> 
> > Rav Ovadia has paskened that women can say kaddish for their parents
> > if there are no sons to say it, however they shouldn't say it in a
> beit knesset.

RDS writes:
> Actually R' Shlomo Ganzfried paskened so almost 200 years ago in the
> KSA 26:20:


> "A daughter may not say Kaddish in shul, though some say that if they
> want to make a Minyan in her home so she can recite it, they are
> allowed to. Others forbid it."
> 
> I don't have a SA handy, but I suspect that RSG based this Halocho too
> on the SA or it's commentators.
> 
It is in a Be'er Heitev Orech Chaim siman 132 letter 5.  It is based on a
Knesset Yechezkel that ultimately seems to source in a Shvut Ya'akov (and
arguably on Teshuva Me'ahava).

It is the position I call the "half way house" in my Women and Kaddish talk
I have been giving to a few Rosh Chodesh groups recently.

The three positions on women saying kaddish are:

a) No - Chavot Ya'ir and others, R Meir Lau is of this school, as is, I
would note, was Rav Uziel;

b) The half way house; - ie in the house but not in the Shul;

c) Yes (so long as she says it from behind the mechitza) mostly American
poskim - R EY Henkin (as further supported and defended by his grandson RYH
Henkin), RYBS, Rav Aharon Soleveitchik, and by implication Rav Moshe (Rav
Moshe has a throw away line in one of his teshuvos which indicates that he
regards it as pretty normal for a woman to come to shul to say kaddish, the
issue being is a mechitza necessary if she only comes occasionally) but also
some more modern Israelis - eg Rav Shaul Yisraeli.  

Getting back to this Halacha Yomit from ROY's yeshiva though, it is
interesting to note that the Yalkut Yosef (chelek 7 siman 23 si'if 11) says
No in any circumstance, based on the Chovot Yai'r so this appears to be
another gap opening up between the Yalkut Yosef and the Halacha Yomit (and
possibly ROY's later teshuvos).

Unfortunately this Halacha Yomit is very short, and I would like to see a
fuller  version of the teshuva (it may be in some volumes of ROY's teshuvos
I don't have access to, like the tenth volume).  What there is of this in
the Halacha Yomit is somewhat surprising, as while he indeed mentions the
Shvut Ya'akov, he bases the prohibition on saying in shul fundamentally on
the Teshuva Me'ahava.  Now indeed the Teshuva Me'ahava does say this, but if
you read the full teshuva it is clear that the Teshuva Me'ahava is flatly
opposed to women being in shul in any circumstance whatsoever (and this
includes girl children of any age, he is extremely critical of fathers who
bring their minor daughters to shul).  Now it is indeed possible that what
the Teshuva Me'ahava is talking about is a shul without a mechitza (he is
talking about the shul in Prague, and while that does indeed have a women's
section, it is so walled off from the men's section that it is hard to see
it being described as part of the shul proper and I imagine the minor
daughters were being brought into the main shul) [and note that one of the
arguments of RYH Henkin is that a lot of the nay sayers were talking about
shuls that didn't have mechitzos, so that women to say kaddish needed to
come in to the back of the men's section] - but his (ie the Teshuva
Me'ahava's) language is very graphic about the absolute prohibition of a
woman being in shul, whether she says something or not.

To base a prohibition on saying kaddish in Shul fundamentally on the Teshuva
Me'ahava would seem to suggest support for the concomitant stance of the
Teshuva Me'ahava that women should not be in shul at all.

> - Danny

Regards

Chana