[Avodah] Water bottle in the desert

[Ken Bloom]

On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 11:32 -0400, Rich, Joel wrote:
> Reuvain has his water bottle and there's not enough for him and
> shimon. Halacha is like Rabbi Akiva that reuvain keeps and shimon
> dies.
> But what if shimon takes the water bottle with a claim that reuvain
> owes him money and let bet din decide.  Does reuvain have the right to
> kill shimon if that's the only way to get the water back? what if
> shimon has no claim other than he wants to live?
> KT
> Joel Rich

Diné Mamonot (R' Ezra Basri) Section 1 (Loans and their Repayment),
Chapter 3 (The Place and Order of Repayment), Halacha 1. (Tr. R' Eliyahu
Touger):

Once a debt has become due, the borrower may demand repayment in any
place. If he and the borrower are journeying together, he may demand
payment in the desert and force the borrower to pay him there, provided
the borrower has sufficient funds to return to a settled area. This law
applies if the loan was given in a settled area. If the lender claims
the borrower has enough means to return and the borrower denies his
claim, the borrower must support his statement by a Rabbinic oath.

Ad Kan Diné Mamonot.

Elsewhere in the chapter, R' Basri distinguishes between loans that were
made in the desert versus those that were made in a settled area, but he
doesn't seem to apply that distinction to this halacha.

Based on this, it would seem that the Shimon has no claim on the water
bottle if there is a loan, and certainly not if there was no loan.

I'll let someone else take it from here regarding the amount of force
Reuven is allowed to enforce his claim.