[Avodah] Yom Tov Sheni for Olim LeReget to the Beit Mikdash

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:59:10AM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
: They couldn't accept eidim if none showed up.  The fact that in all
: that time lo matzinu Elul me'ubar is surely a miracle; but not one
: they could ever count on happening.   "Lo ADU Rosh" was not only
: unheard of bizman habayis, it was equally unheard of when Rebbi
: composed the mishneh; it's a much later development, long after
: there was no more aliyah laregel.

My point is just that if we see they did manipulate the months, and
Rabban Gamliel insisted on a particular date for Yom Kippur, how do we
know how fluid or fixed the decision of Rosh Chodesh was? We already
ruled out al pi re'iyah as proof that it was ad hoc. So, could it have
been algorithmically determined that far back? What's the proof it
wasn't?

Everyone else's calendar was formulaic, not just the local nachriim,
but the Tzeduqim and Qumronim as well. The Tzeduqim trying to force
their algorithm is what they sent false eidim about, no?

R' Hillel's Sanhedrin effectively were pre-meqadeish the chodesh until
the next Sanhedrin, thus eliminating the need for eidei *qiyum* when
that was impossible. And they're credited with finalizing the current
calendar algorithm (minus the issue in which machloqes erupted in R'
Saadia Gaaon's day). Does that necesitate their being the first to use
an algorithm? Other than "everyone says" how do we actually know that
Yavneh gave themselves leeway for decisions made at that time as opposed
to using a fixed algorithm? I want to know if there is a raayah, because
to me it seems the question really remains open.

Notice I'm ascerting we do not know when al pi re'iyah became pro forma.
Not that it happened at some time. My position isn't provable, because I
think there is no provable position. If, however, you have an example
where the decisions were made in Yavneh (at al) at the time the month
was being declared, it could be DISproven.

While trying to find an answer, BTW, I found that R' Tam holds that yom
tov sheini is actually minhag (in the technical sense), not a taqanah.
He uses this on Beitzah 4b as an example of making berakhos on minhagim.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
micha at aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
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