[Avodah] me marom

[Zev Sero]

Micha Berger wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:27:36AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> : Exactly.  And a few pages before that he made exactly the same remark
> : about Ketia bar Shalom.  The second story was about teshuvah.  How does
> : that indicate, in any way at all, that the first and third stories were
> : also about teshuvah?  Do you think all three stories are about the same
> : thing?  If so, why tell all three?
> 
> And if it's a different topic, why would it be in the same sugya?

The three stories are not precisely in the same sugya -- they're
separated by several pages -- but they are in the same perek, and
are therefore clearly connected.

 
> The point of telling all three would require finding what the tzad that
> is not shaveh, and seeing how all three stories are necessary. Not the
> first time the gemara included varations on a theme without explaining
> why.

I've already suggested an explanation for all three stories several
posts ago.  They represent three *different* ways to get instant OHB,
and teshuvah is only one of those ways.


> In any case, I do not see how someone who chooses to stop killing others
> before being promised anything doesn't qualify as a BT.

Where do you see that he chose to stop killing people at all, let
alone before being promised anything?  On the contrary, his offer to
kill RChbT quickly was conditioned on the promise of OHB; simple pshat
in the gemara is that this was a deal, quid pro quo, and had RChbT not
agreed to his terms he would have let him suffer.


> Or how a gift from a tzadiq gozeir would be called "qoneh olamo".

How is it not?  He literally *bought* his OHB.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher