[Avodah] me marom

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:27:36AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
: Exactly.  And a few pages before that he made exactly the same remark
: about Ketia bar Shalom.  The second story was about teshuvah.  How does
: that indicate, in any way at all, that the first and third stories were
: also about teshuvah?  Do you think all three stories are about the same
: thing?  If so, why tell all three?

And if it's a different topic, why would it be in the same sugya?

The point of telling all three would require finding what the tzad that
is not shaveh, and seeing how all three stories are necessary. Not the
first time the gemara included varations on a theme without explaining
why.

In any case, I do not see how someone who chooses to stop killing others
before being promised anything doesn't qualify as a BT. Or how a gift
from a tzadiq gozeir would be called "qoneh olamo".

I also don't understand something in RYA's original post (Oct 19th):
>                      He found himself in perek 10 of Urie Veyishi, and takes
> the mechaber to mean, in the words of my friend, that even after "Tshuvah
> Me'Ahavah, a person still needs to be purged of his sins in Gehenom. The
> Baal Teshuavh will enjoy the pain however, because of the realization of the
> ultimate benefit."

What does it mean to suffer in gehenom but enjoying the pain? If it's a
pleasant experience, in what sense is it pain? How does it purge anything?
And if the person wants to be corrected, how can one say there is an
internalized problem left to be purged of?

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It's never too late
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Fax: (270) 514-1507                      - George Elliot