[Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles

[Yitzhak Grossman]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:55:34 EDT
T613K at aol.com wrote:

...

> We need to examine this sentence a bit more  closely:
>  
> >>[The] liberal denominations of Judaism...assert
> the right  to reject various opinions of "the Rabbis" <<
>  
> The modernizers assert the right to reject the *halachic* opinions of  
> authorities they don't care for.  They assert the right to choose, say,  Shamai 
> over Hillel, or to reject them both, if they don't care for a certain  
> halacha.
>  
> If I had dismissed the *halacha* (women can't be witnesses in court) on the 
>  grounds that the *halacha* was "incompatible with modern, progressive  
> sensibilities," you might have a point.  That would be a non-Orthodox thing  to 
> do.  However I did NOT say, "The Chinuch only rejects women as witnesses  
> because he lived in 13th century Spain."
>  
> What the Chinuch did here was to speculate as to the *reason* for the  
> halacha.  IIANM, the Gemara itself does not give a reason.  The  /reason/ given 
> by the Chinuch is only his opinion.  The halacha stands  whether or not we 
> understand the reason behind it.  I accept the halacha  but I do not accept 
> the reason he gives. I believe that his understanding  of women's 
> capabilities was colored by his time and place.   If there  is any source earlier than 
> the Chinuch, any source which he himself could have  pointed to, to say that 
> women can't be witnesses because their testimony can't  be trusted -- 
> because they lack the intellectual ability to testify accurately  -- I would be 
> interested to hear about it.

While I agree that the distinction between actual Talmudic Halachah and
the reasons offered for it by Rishonim is crucial and fundamental, RnTK
has not responded to my point about Open Orthodoxy and its Maharat
innovation.  My earlier message had continued:

"While I of course mean to cast no aspersions on RnTK's Orthodoxy, she
is basically lending legitimacy here to Open Orthodoxy and its
innovation of the Maharat.  After all, it's pretty clear that there's
no technical infraction of Halachah involved, and the primary objection
of the opponents is that it is contrary to to the traditional Jewish
Hashkafah of gender roles.  But RnTK seems to have no problem with
rejecting Hashkafos of Rishonim that can be attributed to their
particular cultures."

So I myself acknowledged the distinction that RnTK makes here, and
that's why I mentioned the institution of the Maharat, rather than some
blatant revision of Halachah.  Pace RnTK, its proponents ought to be
perfectly entitled to argue that any post-Talmudic Hashkafah regarding
women may be disregarded as having been based upon someone's
"understanding of women's capabilities" which has been "colored by his
time and place", and as long as they follow Halachah, RnTK ought to
have no quarrel with them.

Yitzhak
--
Bein Din Le'din - http://bdld.info - *** Note change of address ***
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