[Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles

[T613K at aol.com]

From: "Chana Luntz" <Chana at kolsassoon.org.uk>
>>And  then, if you are prepared to recognise that there are those who do 
think
that  this change of women marrying later is indeed forced upon us by
economic  necessity, if nothing else, how do you provide the spiritual
nourishment that  may have traditionally been available via marriage, 
without
a marriage? I get  back to the question of ase l'cha rav.  For a woman who 
is
yet to marry,  do you hold that aseh l'cha rav, is a positive mitzvah?  If
so, how  should it be achieved, given the modern hurdles?  Or is the  
correct
price to pay that a woman needs to put her spiritual growth (not to  mention
halachic observance) on hold during her teenage and twenties (if  not
thirties) while she pursues her secular studies?  If not, how is  growth to
be achieved given that the traditional supports available to her  
grandmother
in her bas melech penima role are not available to her during  this period? 
 <<

>>>>>
I don't know what  spiritual supports were available to Grandma that are 
not available to women  today, except husbands, of course.  But most husbands 
aren't very good at  that sort of thing.  In many homes the wife is the 
stronger partner,  spiritually speaking, and it has ever been thus.  

 


You have spoken of "asei lecha rav" before and I recall you connected that  
idea with the phenomenon of girls in seminary developing crushes on their  
teachers.  It seems that you see the relationship with a rav as having a  
strong emotional component, a level of emotional intimacy, that is not very  
appropriate between a man and a woman outside of marriage.  In this case I  
don't know what difference it makes whether a woman is married or single.   
But I disagree with your premise.  Many single young women (and of course  
many married women) used to talk to my father about their problems and  
questions, halachic or hashkafic.  My mother might come in and offer tea  and 
cookies, she would usually be somewhere around.  Sometimes the young  woman 
would confide in my mother rather than in my father, not unusual for a  
sympathetic rebetzen.  
 
"Asei lecha rav" can be anything from asking shailos about your pots  and 
pans to discussing serious life-goal issues.  It is not the case  that for 
the typical married woman, her husband is her rav, as you seem to  think.  I 
am having trouble wrapping my head around your understanding of  "aseh lecha 
rav" that would make it inappropriate for a woman to have a male  rav, or 
that would make any distinction between a single and a married woman in  her 
relationship with a rav.  (PS On a personal note I must confess that  the 
phenomenon of a girl having a crush on her teacher is not unknown to me, and  
it certainly adds a delightful piquancy to one's schooldays, but I don't see 
the  "crush" as having anything to do with choosing a rav.  Well I guess if  
a girl does have a crush on a teacher, it would be prudent to choose a 
different  person as her rav.)


--Toby  Katz
==========



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