[Avodah] some halachot of moser

[Daniel Eidensohn]

Zev Sero wrote:
> Eli Turkel wrote:
>>   R Broyde has an article on the
>> subject in Journal of Contemporary Society 43
>>
>> In it his brings that the Tzitz Eliezer allows reporting crimes to
>> western society governments based on the Arukh HaShulchan that todays
>> governments do not kill criminals as bandits used to in the old days.
>
> 1. This makes no sense, since its premise - that the law of moser has
> something to do with the government killing the victim - is patently
> false.  Hamoser *mamon* chavero is no less a mosser.

*Rosh says that being moser money will lead to killing
*

*Rosh**^[1] * <#_ftn1>*(17:1):… *Our Sages compared an informant who 
causes a bandit to take money from another Jew to a rodef who pursues to 
kill …. So to in the case of money of a fellow Jew, once it falls into 
the hands of a bandit there is no mercy. Today they take some of it and 
tomorrow they take the rest and in the end the Jew himself is taken by 
the bandits and he is killed because they think he admit he has more 
money. Because it leads to killing, the informing of bandits about a 
Jew’s money is like a pursuer to kill someone (rodef) and the victims 
can be saved by killing the informant… And surely in the present case 
where according to witnesses he has been warned already and he refuses 
to desist. Thus it is considered an on going crime and everyone has the 
right to punish him without the need of receiving witnesses in his 
presence. Even when it is not an on going crimes, when someone is judged 
before non-Jews they do not require the acceptance of witnesses in his 
presence. That is because someone who is an established informant, the 
non-Jews show favoritism to him for their own benefit. Therefore if 
there were a requirement to accept witnesses in his presence and do a 
thorough examination of them – he would never be convicted since the 
non-Jews would protect him. Even when he is not in danger he informs on 
individuals and the public so surely in the case where he is accused and 
thus his life is in danger – he will make false accusations and will 
endanger the entire Jewish community. Therefore the standard practice in 
all Jewish communities is when a person has informed three times – 
either regarding giving over the Jew himself or his property to a bandit 
– they search a means of having him punished. This is an emergency 
condition for the community to prevent him informing on others and to 
eliminate informers. Therefore in our present case where witnesses have 
established that he has repeatedly informed and that he is prepared to 
do it again – it is good to have him judged and punished. And thus 
should be done to all enemies of G-d…


>
> 2. The Aruch Hashulchan absolutely cannot be relied on in this area;
> his exaggerated flattery of contemporary government is transparently
> designed to please the censor, and is so over the top precisely so
> that the reader should understand that he doesn't mean it.  E.g. see
> the title of the siman on hilchot gerut.   It's of a piece with the
> siddurim that proclaimed "avinu malkenu en lanu melech *bashamayim*
> ela ata"; everybody understood that the extra word was not to be said.
It is hard to accept that the Aruch HaShulchan would lie c.v. about the 
correct halacha See Yam Shel Shlomo Bk 38a
>
> The Ramo permits the *victim* of a violent crime to masser his
> assailant.  I'm not sure that other people are included in this heter.
>
Rema (388:7) is dealing with a case that someone is regularly beating 
others - there is no mention how serious the beatings are

*Rema**^[1] * <#_ftn1>*(C.M. 388:7):…* Some say that if a man has been 
hit by another - it is possible to file a complaint with the secular 
government - even though this causes the assailant great damage.

There is also a Shach (388:45) to this effect as well as a Chasam Sofer 
(Gittin 7a).






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