[Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles

[Chana Luntz]

RAF writes:

> Well, the source I quoted (by way of Rashi; it is from the 
> Sifrei) deals with a woman accused of adultery during her 
> betrothal period, which carries a potential seqila 
> punishment, and she is quiet while her father takes up her 
> defense, whereupon Rashi quotes the Sifrei that "mika'an 
> she-ein reshut la-isha ledabber bifnei ha-ish." So, we are 
> talking about a defendant.

No we are not.  The point at which this all occurs (ie where the father
speaks, and on which Rashi comments) is where the innocence of the woman is
already a given, and the father is suing for reparations for slander - ie it
is the "civil" litigation after the criminal one has already been resolved
in the woman's favor (the physical evidence of her virginity has already
been laid before the court).  The issue now is the physical punishment for
which the husband is liable (ie malkos) and the payment which the husband
has now to make for the slander.  That is, the husband, having had his claim
proved false, is now the defendant.  BTW, the father is in fact the one
entitled by law to the slander payment, not the 12 year old girl, so in fact
he is genuinely the plaintiff who needs to sue for his rights.  As a
by-product of that monetary claim, there is also malkos.  It is not clear,
however, given that the monetary claim is not to come to her, what would be
the basis on which the girl should have standing to speak.   The only
argument for her to have standing is to ensure the malkos - but on the other
hand, since malkos is primarily a criminal penalty, it is arguably not ideal
for the victim to be suing purely to ensure the correct criminal penalty is
applied (a lot of legal systems do not allow this at all - it has to be the
state inforcing criminal penalties).  Of course, one might query why if she
is the one who was falsely accused, it is the father who is entitled to the
slander payment - but that is an issue that runs through a whole range of
these scenarios (the situation is the same vis a vis rape and seduction) -
and clearly cannot be dealt with in isolation.
 
> --
> Arie Folger,

Regards

Chana