[Avodah] Praying to Angels

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Dov Kay <dov_kay at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>  As the one who started this thread, I should have given the source for the
> Ramban's statement about praying to angels.  It is in Toras Hashem Temima.
> In it, he refers specifically to the piyut machnisei rachamim, and says that
> it should not be said.  It seems that he considers this sort of thing AZ
> mamash, as he then goes on to discuss the chet ho'egel, which also started
> as the desire for an intermediary.  He also quotes a Yerushalmi in the
> beginning of Berachos (daf 9, IIRC), which contrasts the King of Kings with
> a human king, as the latter requires ministers and other intermediaries,
> while HKBH wants us to appeal to him directly.  I don't have the original in
> front of me right now, but I can provide a full quote if anyone wants.
>
> The Mossad HaRav Kook edition of Selichos also cites the Shibolei HaLeket
> as defending the recitation of machnisei rachamim.
>
> I should note that in Yeshivas Ohr Somayach in Jerusalem, machnisei
> rachamim was not recited, and I imagine that this is the minhag of Yeshivas
> Mir, as most of OS's minhagim came from there.
>
> In practice, I am in RMB's boat, in that I am usually behind and am
> grateful to have an excuse for something to skip.
>
> The MHK edition also refers to editions which changed the phraseology of
> the offending stanza in the piyut of the 13 middos so that we express the
> wish that the midas horachamim should show us favour, rather than beseeching
> the midah itself.  Goldschmidt, the editor, isn't impressed with these
> efforts because they distort the poetry of the piyut.
>
> Kol tuv
> Dov Kay
>

Rav Schwab was reproted to have said:

Q: Why do we recite Maran divishmaya after machinisei Rachamim?
A:  In order to emphasize LACH mishchanan after saying machnisei Rachamim we
are still Mischanein ONLY to HKBH.


Apprarently Brueur's and the Yekke community in genreal has not been so
concerned re: the Theological consequences of Machnisei Rachamim.  I wrote
an "apologetic" post on this practice myself many years ago. I will BEH
rehahsh it soon




-- 
Kesiva vaChasima Tova
Best Wishes for the New Year 5769
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20080929/f3f8715c/attachment-0002.htm>