[Avodah] police misdeeds and trial evidence

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:49:31AM -0400, hankman wrote:
: I asked our magid shiur at daf yomi if he new of any source for a sevara
: why nashim can not testify. He directed me to the following Chezkuni in
: Gen. 18:15 quoting a Yalkut Shimoni:
: Vatekachesh Sarah Laimor: Mikan shehanashim pesulos l'aidus, lefi
: shemekachshos mipnai hayiroh.

I think in general, issues that make it difficult for the dayanim to
asses the derishah vechaqira invalidate eidus. Which follows directly
from the gezeiras hakasuv -- the exclusion from eidus is implied by the
exclusion from serving as dayanim.

This gives a general rule that also explains why Moshe rabbainu couldn't
give eidus about Aharon. It's not a lack of ne'emanus. It's an inability
to know the relationship well enough to separate objective fact from
emotionally colored perception of it.

Getting back to the original topic...

Women can give eidus -- wherever eid echad can, which is also wherever
we can use evidence.

And to reiterate a point I couldn't "sell" in the past -- I think the
overwhelming majority of cases were resolved on this plane. Given the
need to protect society from murderers, and the difficulty in meting
out dinei nefashos, don't you think most murderers would end up in jail?

You only need 2 eidim for eidei qiyum (eg qiddishin), to outnumber the
ba'al din in a CM case (but the ba'al din can outtrump the eid echad
with his own or with a shavu'ah), or oneshim.

These are a minority of cases BD must face! (The first category not
even being a court case.) Do you think they did nothing? Or do you think
that if 5 women or evidence make it obvious the guy is really a danger
to society (or their property), the guy would be locked up?

I would be shocked to think BD did not routinely protect society this
way.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I slept and dreamt that life was joy.
micha at aishdas.org        I awoke and found that life was duty.
http://www.aishdas.org   I worked and, behold -- duty is joy.
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