[Avodah] Kaddish where there is no chiyuv

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Rich, Joel <JRich at sibson.com> wrote:

>  S"A O"C 132:2 - Rama says to say a kaddish after aleinu even where there
> is no chiyuv. Recently I was told by a friend that his Rav said this is lav
> davka and really meant the final kaddish which is now after shir shel yom. I
> vaguely remember hearing bshem R' YBS that the kaddish after aleinu is the
> "real" concluding kaddish (vs. kaddish shalem)
>
>  what are the actual practices out there? Any other  insights on the above?
>
> KT
> Joel Rich
>
In Sepharad a mizmor is said BEFORE aleinu and a qaddish ysaom follows and
Aleinu is a closing hymn w/o Qaddish

In Frnankfort, they say mizmorimg AFTER Aleinu but THERE WAS NO ALEINU
KADDISH!  This was changd when Breuer came to America.

In German communites when Arvis follows mincha directly there is NO Aleinu
and NO Kaddish.  this resembles Mussaph when it follows shacharis

In my shul we DID not do aleinu before Qabblas Sahbbos BUT I made an
exceptin if someone had [j]yahrzeit on Friday, I then inserted Aleinu to
enable a Kaddish.

All things considered, the Sephardic model to me is more logical. You say:

   1. kaddish tiskabal
   2. A mizmor
   3. Kaddish yason
   4. Aleinu

--And that is it.  I am not sure of the Rema's Mesorah on thsi one,;it was
not from Minhag Frankfort, although other communites might have been
different

I hope this helps

Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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