[Avodah] TIDE and Austritt

[Arie Folger]

RMB wrote:
> If Austritt applied today it would mean shunning the OU and RCA
> and avoiding functions where the O rabbi belonged to the SCA or some
> still-existing parallel. Even political lobbying. Possibly not even giving
> credance to the OU hechsher until they renounce RYBS's SCA responsum.

I am not sure. RSRH had close contacts with Rav Ezriel Hildesheimer, despite 
fighting him regarding the Orthodoxen Rabbinerseminar. They  corresponded 
extensively. REH was the rav of an Austrittgemeinde, but interpreted Austritt 
in a way that would make the hair of many members of the RCA stand on end, 
such a maverick he was.

The reall issue of Austritt AISI, based on, for example, Heinz Moshe Grauper's 
and Robert Liberles' books, was whether, after Kehillah Kedoshah Frankfurt 
had become Kehillat haKefirah Frankfurt and then turned around to become "the 
heterodox community of Frankfurt that accomodates the Orthodox, too," whether 
under such circumstances one needed to distance himself from the heterodox 
construct, because otherwise heterodoxy would be given a hekhsher and be 
helped in its prohibited actions, or whether the unity of klal Yisrael 
required sacrifices such as accepting heterodoxy.

History has shown that almost all the Orthodox sided with Austritt. Where 
Orthodoxy did not necessarily side with Austritt, there was either no need 
for it, or Orthodoxy suffered tremendously, especially in the education of 
the youth.

However, IIUC, *after* most of RSRH's kehilloh refused to practice Austritt 
(80% remained members of the grossen Gemeinde despite being members of KAJ), 
he did become more extreme. That said, the circumstances were unique: R and 
the historical school were making inroads and bringing about a 'hurbon of 
many kehilaus.

One communication between REH and RSRH touching on Austritt was whether to 
join the Alliance Israélite Universelle - ma'hrivei neshamot, as I found out 
from family members who were educated in their schools, but on could argue 
that that was much later. REH was approached to become a board member and he 
refused to even become a regular member. However, as antisemitism increased, 
he agreed to become a regular member, while RSRH refused even that, on 
account of the leadership being anti-Judaism. As a matter of fact, they were 
indeed assimilationists. RSRH mentioned, for example, the fact that their 
president was in a mixed marriage.

What you see from the above was that they battlefield wasn't an OU or an RCA, 
but things like the Federations. REH wouldn't have joined the SCA, either, 
but he would CONTEMPLATE, not necessarily agree to, join in the Federations. 
RSRH would have neither.

Whether RSRH ate from the Würzburger Rov's she'hitoh I don't know, and if he 
didn't it was more out of a desire to sustain his kehilloh, i.e. out of 
economic and political calculations, than out of Austritt ideology.

Regarding nowadays, since RSRH passed away, and circumstances changed, one can 
argue almost anything sensible in the name of Austritt and TiDE, as posters 
have been doing, and so I do not desire to enter this debate too deeply.

Kol tuv,
-- 
Arie Folger
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com