[Avodah] TIDE and Austritt

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Samuel Svarc <ssvarc at yeshivanet.com> wrote:

>
>
> As for the "possibility of cooperation on non-Torah matters", this is
> something that needs more detail to be answered intelligently. Oh' and TIDE
> doesn't recognize any "Non-Torah matters", as all of DE is part of the
> rubric on which Torah must be the master of.
>
>
> KT,
> MSS
>


While the above might be 100% true it does not recognize a BIG ISSUE.

Austritt also did not recognize LOYAL Torah Jews who did not believe in
Austritt.

I met a yekke from Frankfort who only found out about an entire
Torah-Observant Community in his home town by going on vacation.  He saw
them learning Torah and Talmud whilst vacationing  and was surprised - nay
shocked - that these people were Kosher Observant Jews, too.  He told me, he
thought that was wrong plain and simple.

You can also see this in the Bio ofRav Breuer re: the dath of Rav Nobel of
the Gemeinde Orthodox.  No matter how you slicet, Austritt went beyond
simply not co-operating with Jews who did not recognize Torah values, and it
is highly debatable to say that TIDE was married not only to Austritt but
Austritt against other Frum Jews.

Frankly, Frankfort might have needed this kind of strictness at one time.
But Koheles has warned us that there is a time [and place] for everything.
Even Rabbiner Hirsch never compelled other communities to follow his
specific model [see his bio]. He left every decision to every community.

I would guess there is a common denominator. Virtually every Torah-True Jew
will NOT recoginze non-Observant communities as legitimate alternatives.
The issue is, is co-operating on certain matters a form of recognition. In
the USA circa 2009, I highly doubt if Cong. Anshei Austritt were to take a
bus to Washington with Cong. Anshei Reform in order to protest a matter of
common cause that such an arrangement confers "recognition" of an alternatie
Torah lifestyel, It is merely recognizing them as fellow Jews.

Now, it IS true that Rabbiner Hirsch felt that Reform was a new [non=Jewish]
religion but the Agudah in the USA has protested that we are all people no
matter what, which pretty sums it up.

So EVen RYBS subscribed to SOME sort of Austritt, and I would bet that Rav
Breuer made SOME exemptions to Austritt in the USA.  For exmample,the
American Roedlehim Siddur used by KAJ was printed by The Hebrew Publishing
Company.  AISI, we can quibble on details...

-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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