[Avodah] bat mitzva "bo bayom"

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 01:28:16PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
:>The halakhah deOraisa has no significance to a particular age, and is
:>entirely about the individual's rates of development.

: I'm sorry, what is your source for this?  AFAIK shanim are absolutely
: required, and any hair before the appropriate age *is* shuma.  We're
: not "unsure" whether it's shuma, it's shuma by definition.

Shuma means mole. We don't define a mole by age; we're obviously (to me)
talking about assumptions. If the kid is too young for pubic hair to be
likely, we assume it's a wart.

(Pulling my head out of the web version of the Bar Ilan CD.)

The relevent gemara is Niddah 45b. 

Looking at tengential references... Niddah 48a doesn't mention a minimum
age. Nor Y-mi Yevamos, Y-mi Kesuvos...

According to the Shitah Mequbetzes (BB 56b, "veli ani") writes that the
2 sa'aros cause the halachic chalos, that aren't merely indicators of it.

The Rosh (Gittin 9:11), citing Rabbeinu Chananel, says that it's
intelectual maturity that causes adulthood. If we could measure that, it
would define adulthood. Since we can't we use simanim.

The Rosh (Gittin 9:11), citing Rabbeinu Chananel, says that it's
intelectual maturity that causes adulthood. If we could measure that, it
would define adulthood. Since we can't we use simanim.

All of the above define adulthood by sa'aros alone. I would say that's
consistent with age being derivative.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One doesn't learn mussar to be a tzaddik,
micha at aishdas.org        but to become a tzaddik.
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