[Avodah] Court retroactively revokes conversions

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Zev Sero <zev at sero.name> wrote:

> Richard Wolpoe wrote:
>
>  Came Rav Parness [not RRW!} and said if the propsetive Ger  says: "I
> > accept but K know the flesh is weak and I  might or am likely to sin..."  ka
> > mashma lan it is still an OK kabbalah.
> >
> [...]
>
> > What this Ger is saying is he accepts Mitzvos but realizes that  he is
> > subject to human frailty and  if if is for Te'avon he is OK. That is the
> > hiddush here.
> >
>
> But this is not a chiddush.


Qeustion:
do ANY of your cases below  address teh case of the kabbalh itself being
qualified by a  discleaimer of  human frailty?

If yes, than ein ahchi name this is no hiddush.  {it's not mine it's rav
Parness's and he never siad it was a hiddsuh anyway - just peshat]

however, I failed to notice any mention of a qualified kabbals ol mitzvos,
if that is the case it is indeed a hiddush, because devarim shebelev einan
devarim


>  Every ger knows that he is likely to sin,
> and probably has a good idea of which sins he's likely to have the most
> difficulty with.  He's accepting the *yoke* of mitzvot, the obligation
> to keep them, not guaranteeing that he will actually do so, all of the
> time.  Note the language of the lecture a ger is given: "yesterday if
> you broke Shabbat or ate chelev you did nothing wrong, but now if you
> do so you will be punished with stoning or with karet."  This implies
> that both we and he accept that he's likely to be nichshal, and what
> he's accepting is that if he does so he'll be punished, just as every
> Jew is.  Essentially he's choosing a Jew's Genenom over a goy's Gan
> Eden, "baasher tamuti amut vesham ekaver".
>
> There's a teshuva in IM dealing with this exact question: a woman
> admitted years after her conversion that *in the mikveh* when she
> was accepting the yoke of mitzvot she intended to do an avera, once.


as above devarim shebelev einan devarim
I am adressing a declaration of weakness not a THOUGHT of weakness.

-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/


>
> RMF ruled that this wasn't a problem, because she knew and accepted
> that what she intended to do was an avera, and that she would be
> wrong to do it, and intended after that one occasion never to do it
> again.
>
> What's not acceptable is if he doesn't accept this, and thinks he
> continues to have the right to do these things.  And one sign that
> this might be the case is if he appears to make no effort at all to
> keep them, even immediately after the conversion.  If he goes straight
> from the BD to Red Lobster, it's pretty obvious that his promises were
> lies.  But if he restrains himself for a while, and eventually gives
> in and guiltily sneaks off to indulge his taavah, that makes him no
> different than any Jew with a yetzer hara.
>
> (OTOH if he goes directly from Red Lobster to the BD, that's a sign
> that he means the promises he intends to make.  I knew a ger who on his
> way to the mikveh stopped off somewhere for one last fling.)
>
> --
> Zev Sero               S
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