[Avodah] Rabbi Michael Rosensweig - Kedoshim Tihiyu: The Obligation to Internalize Halachic Values and Adopt a Halachic World View

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 10:39:56PM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> : > #1 The Gra favored the book sources (at least for his own practice),
>
> : For the GRA himself this method had boundaries. For thothers the slippery
> : slope allows people to use that GRA to justify paskening new Halacha from
> : the Gmara.  This is also attributed to the Rambam but in HIS time the
> Gmaar
> : was stil lrealtively NEW
>
> But they didn't take that slippery slope. They realized he was sui
> generis. Yeish gevul.


Who are tehe they
Zev SEro said SA harav is the same. Who says that list is exahastive
one Rav told me he accepts RYBS reads of the Rambam over those of Bet
Yosef.  is he right?


>
>
> :> #2 Yekkes
> :
> We're in agreement then.
>
> ...
> :> Whereas Chassidum changed numerous practices to fit the
> :> Chassidic worldview.
>
> : This imho is dangerous. the hashkafa dictates the way to behave instead
> of
> : an objective read of the sources [mimetis are imho an alterante form of
> : source]
>
> AISI, not so, as long as one is medaqdeiq that the hashkafah is used
> only to choose between options actually supportable through textual
> halachic process.
>

So give me the sources for dancing on Shabbos against codified Mishna!  You
re contradicting yourself. This SHOULD be minhag shtus as per YOUR shita and
Tsoafos therefore should be wrong here. and  how about Sukkah on Shmini
Atzeres?


And if you are clear that you are right and I am not then let the slippery
slope being. YOU might be satisfied that his process will not be abused, and
I say it is inherently fuzzy and quite abusable!



>
>
>
> CHaning how you weight options is different than changing the list of
> options. The accusation is that RER did both.
>

Well if you follow BY and SA you will ssee that he winnowe dout MANY
Rishonim and most nos'ei Keilim voiced thier objections and let the others
to rest.

But when the GRA revived the RIF/RAmbam on Matzos he [imho] unwinnowed
Rishonim back to the Talmud.  That is my point of slippery slope.  Even the
kaf Hacayyim rejected the GRA purely on consensus [ont on the merits of the
text]

But if you accept going back to Talmud...


>
> : BTW at least TWO Rashi's I just learned in Kesubbos [daf 2: daf 3.]  are
> : very clear implications taht afkin'u is about making a FLAWED GET work,
> not
> : about  undoing  kiddushin w/o a GET.
>
> I posted about this in the past. All of the gemaras cases include
> either:
> 1- anullment at the time of qidushin (which may not be hafkaah as much
> as hefqeir BD); or
> 2- at the time of a flawed get.
>
>
>
> I think that in a generation whose greatest battle is against mitzvos
> anashim meilumadah, we need to shift pesaq to whatever will increase
> passion in shemiras hamitzvos. We have plenty of diyuq, we need more
> "erev Shabbos Jews".


So it if FEELS good it is OK?  C's argue bring guitars to shul and get
kabbalas Sahbbos to be more lively like kumsitz!

Maybe in a hora'as sho'ah NCSY permitted dancing on Shabbos, but your pardim
opens a can of worms

Some say dtich Piyytim
One C rabbi [with Ortho Semicha] says if we ONLY ditch the minhag Ta'us of
kittniyyos magically all Jews will observe passover somehow




>
>
> Add to that that in our day, there is no dominant minhag avos to define
> a minhag hamaqom, we are in the beginning of a process of congealing new
> minhagei hamaqom in our new meqomos.


I kinda accept that




> I therefore feel it's an appropriate
> time to give aggadah more weight than usual. :-)BBii!
> -Micha
>
> --
> Micha Berger
>


Makes no sense to me. It makes a fuzzier situatoin evn FUZZIER and MORE
subjective and substituting FRUMKEIT for EHRLICHKEIT  We can now ply MORE
games with texts and  pasken by emotiosn w/o sources because  it ulimtately
leads to piety. this was the early Anti-nomian position of the Hassidim upon
which the GRA put a herem!

AISI we live in a WESTERNIZED society in the USA.  We should use more
obejctive and stricter Yekke style analysis of sources and get Halcha from a
more fiar-minded Centrist shvil Hazahav with less lieralism and
reactionariyism.

Set up a fair BD. Kitzur SA did it we can, too.  Rabbis today can
eclectically do jsut bout anyting and call it halacah.

I know ther are at least 100 recipes for cholent, but imagine if you wanted
a chocolate doughnut and it had 100 differnt recipes too! you could NEVER
define it again!

AISI the SA/REMA simplified halacha by cutting off options and giving us a
brand new start [I call it a synpoint for your database  gurus out there]
Now some of the no'sei keilim twek the SA/REMA but for the most part it
stands up.

The Ben Ish Chai ante dto Lurianize Halachah by Rejecting Maran in favor of
Arizal
Ashkenazim have come up with a whole new set of poskim in order to add MANY
more non-Talmudic minhaggim to a very long list taht Rishonim had etc. I
don't think adding more aggadah will do anything but increase the confusion
.

ROY is attempting to REstore Maran BY to his pre-eminence. I am attempting
to restore Rema/Levush and perhaps AhS [who is usually a Tradtionalist] to
be the Ashkenazic alternative.

That said, I do agree that paskening w/o any grounding in Midrash and
Agagadah is a VERY bad thing. I have started mini-doses of Tanna devai
Eliyahu [great hizzuk for me] Pireki R. Elizeze [over my head at times]

I have done Avos, Shomenh Prakkim, and I BEH will be doing Avos Dr. Nassan
and Derech Eretz etc. I started Tanhuma and put it down for a while because
I could not keep up to the parsha of the week.   I accepted Micha's premise
that Aggdah is a necesary componet for being a well-rounded Yid. But I would
be very cautious about applying it to the Halachic process.

For those of a more rational bent, I would suggest Rambam hilchos Dei'os,
Teshuva, and Talmud Torah as good "mussar sefarim", too!   Also Emes - Iyyov
Misheli Tehillim.  Mishlei gives me a lot of Musar.



-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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