[Avodah] Selichos before Chatzos

[Richard Wolpoe]

On 9/11/07, Dov Kay <dov_kay at hotmail.co.uk > wrote:
>
>
>
> I am also no savant of Kabbalah.  However, I understand that minhag Chabad
> and the p'sak of the Ben Ish Chai is that latecomers, r'l, do not skip the
> 4
> levels even in order to daven the Amidah b'tzibbur.
>
> With regard to Selichos, RMF in IG permitted an early recitation (ie
> before
> chatzos, but preferably at 1/3 of the night), but only as a horaas shaah
> for
> one year (his words) and on the basis that an announcement be made to that
>
> effect.  I don't think you can bring a proof from YK, as this is clearly a
> sui generis eis ratzon.
>
> Kol tuv
> Dov Kay
>

ein hachi nami!
But the Kabbalist giving the Shiur I cited above - Rav Mordechai Aderet -
noted that despite this kabblistic position, The Halacha in the Shulchan
Aruch is otherwise  - And  he noted that this is the POWER OF THE TZIBBUR to
over-ride these Kablistic considerations.

Point? if you are into the Kabblistic model go for it, but if not the POWER
OF THE TZIBBUR is over-riding.  And It makes sens to me to use this power
for saying selichos in a non-kabblistic manner.

Mema nafsach. If you are following Halachah - as codified in shulchan aruch
- then be consistent and rule that the power of the Tzibbur is uber alles.
If you are a mekubal follow THAT model

The Sha'arei TEshuva's objection to Selichos before Midnight is al pi
Nistar. Fine for those who  are consistently dooing things al pi nistar go
for it.

But now we have a Mishmash!  When it comes to the matter of coming late we
follow HALALCHA and NOT Kabbalah. OTOH for Selichos we  are chosheisfor
Kabbalah.

WHY is there this inconsistency?

---------------------------------------
My understanding is that the early morning (from chatzos to daylight) is an
"ays ratzon". And that the night before chatzos is emphatically NOT an ays
ratzon. Except for YK, which is ENTIRELY an ays ratzon.

> 2. Furthermore why not EXTEND the exception  for YK throughout the
> Selichos season  - given that our Selichos are structured on the YK >
model to begin with?

Because the nature of the universe is not subject to our whim or convention.
If the night is not already an ays ratzon, our decision to consider it so
won't change anything.

Just my guess...

Akiva Miller

----------------------------------

Dirshu Hashem behimatzo - aiui -either applies to all of 10 Days of Teshuva
or  perhaps from the beginning of Ellul.  [see kitzur SA for example]  I
realize that YK is special but I see no reason to go fuandamental on this
one issue when there is ZERO Halachic sources to say that it is assur to see
13 Middos at night.

Remember that RMF actually permitted this practice as a "sha's hadechak" I
would say that improved kavann or other logistic difficulties would IMHO
serve as a legitimate reason to do this!

Furthermore the structure of Selichos is all about an extened YK on many
levels.  Worth a thread on its own. Selichos of Erev RH for exmaple includes
the pizmon of Shacharis of YK.  Erev RH is in itself the biggest of the YK
K'tanim that precede many Roshei Chadashim.

FWIW At  Ner Yisrael Toronto where I was gabbai - I was told that the Shatz
was to say 13 Middos on RH when it falls on Sahbbos. Most communities only
do so on YK itself, but we see the possiblity of extending that  aspect to
RH .

-- 
Kesiva vaChasima Tova
Best Wishes for 5768,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
Please Visit:
http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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