[Avodah] Torah Study vs. other contributions to society

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, June 10, 2007 8:16 pm, R Doron Beckerman wrote:
: Whoa. I'm a little more broad minded than that! What I said was this,
: and is limited to this:
:>> I think your comments on *TuM enhancing understanding that Torah is
:>> the Chochmah of the Borei* are not in sync with the Torah's
:>> Hashkafah.

: Can you tell me a source that Madda enhances understanding that Torah
: is Chochmah of the Borei? (Not that Madda enhances understanding the
: Chochmah of the Borei, but that Madda enhances understanding that
: *Torah* is Chochmas HaBorei, more so that learning Torah without
: Madda does)

I am not sure what you're saying, since you seem to be making a
vehement statement "not in sync with the Torah's Hashkafah" about a
subtle and not that central point.

Say someone believes that histakeil beOraisa uvarei alma means that
one could therefore deduce the beauty of the Torah by studying the
alma. Even if you're convinced he's wrong, are you saying that he is
"not in sync with the Torah's hashkafah"?

What about the person who feels that learning Torah helps one
understand that Torah is Chokhmas haBorei, and agrees with the Gra
that a lack of other limudim will deprive someone of 100 yadayim of
Torah and the help it could have been to them?

...
: IIUC, you agree that Binyan BHM"Q should be prioritized behind Talmud
: Torah when choosing what to do. This is true even during the time that
: Ezra was eating or resting - he was not supposed to get up from his
: meal or bed and go build the BHM"Q, but to go back and learn under
: Baruch ben Neriya.

I'm not sure about the last sentence. Ezra couldn't commute from
Barukh's beis medrash in Bavel to and from Y-m. He had to put BBHMQ
entirely off, and not alternate tasks.


: Why, then, do you distinguish between this and Gadol TT MeHatzalas
: Nefashos, and, if there is a distinction, what grants the Taz license
: to prove anything from how to understand TT vs. Hatzalah from TT
: vs. BBHM"Q? The Taz says explicitly that these two statements are
: identical in their import.

Again, not lema'aseh. No one leaves the gemara saying that we follow
Ezra's example and not Mordechai's. Which also answers your question
at the beginning of the paragraph; in one case the aphorism runs
against the example set, in the other, it supports and explains it.

The Taz says explicitly (YD 251:14 #6) that the gemara is a problem in
the SA's pesaq about reallocating the money, but his masqanah is that
the SA is right -- hatzalas nefashos does come first. The is no
lema'aseh conclusion placing hatzalas nefashos after TT here.

However, there is in a different inyan -- interrupting seider. I would
argue that if he bothers writing that one may not interrupt learning
in order to save a life that someone else could save, presumably if he
was only about to learn or deciding what to do and could learn, TT
comes second.

Placing hatzalas nefashos after TT would also not fit other pesaqim
already mentioned by others, such as the Rama's insistence that
learning without earning one's own parnasah is garu'ah, that tangent I
went on with RYHutner and "ma'arich es hasheim", etc...

:> The CS needs to give an alternate explanation for the negative
:> judgment of Mordechai which would seem to say he holds that the
:> exchange of Torah for hatzalas nefashos would not in-and-of-itself
:> justify the judgment. And thus he says it was based on Mordechai's
:> learning being the one Hashem considers more interruptible.

: Where is the CS?

Parashas Zachor pg 193.

I am repeating myself somewhat from things I wrote in
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol23/v23n123.shtml#01>.

: Again, I never said such a thing. I began by asking whether TuM
: accepted that Torah study was superior to any other contribution to
: society, and, if not, what the sources were for equating other
: contributions to society to Torah study. That "Torah Hashkafah" thing
: was on a very limited point.

Since I seem to be wrapping up this thread by returning to my major
points all in one place...

RYWolbe has a seifer on the 7 mitzvos described as "keneged kulam". TT
is not unique in getting this compliment, and therefore hard to say
it's superior in all ways to all other mitzvos. (Except according to
the TYT.)

But I think TuM would say that this whole ranking is what doesn't
work. Life is supposed to be a chulent or "a balanced diet", "broad",
not deciding what one thing is most important and only doing that.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha at aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter