[Avodah] Torah Study vs. other contributions to society

[Samuel Svarc]

This post was monstrously long, so although I hate splitting up a post, I
think I will have to answer it in a series of posts.

>From: Chana Luntz [mailto:chana at kolsassoon.org.uk]
>Subject: Re: [Avodah] Torah Study vs. other contributions to society
>
>MSS wrote:
>
>> Well, lets see what Chazal say about this--the Gemara in
>> Megilla that Gadol Talmud Torah MeHatzalas Nefashos. It would
>> appear that they felt it's better to seat in that ivory tower.
>>
>
>This aspect of the discussion just gets us back to the previous one we
>had regarding doing other mitzvos instead of talmud torah.  It is clear
>from the Shulchan Aruch that I brought in that discussion that one is in
>fact commanded to take time out from talmud torah to perform other
>mitzvos, unless they are delegatable to others.(If you remember in
>particular the discussion focussed on burying people and being a member
>of a chevra kadisha).
>
>It seems pretty clear from the sources that if there is nobody else
>around to bury, then one is commanded to stop and bury - and that
>statements such as gadol talmud torah and talmud torah kneged kulam
>cannot be understood to mean that, for example, corpses should end up
>being left unburied because nobody has got together a chevra kadisha.
>(Not to mention the sameach chatan v'kala etc requirements).

No one ever suggested this, and what you are talking about (the above
mentioned SA) does not at all speak to the original question, namely: If one
has the opportunity to learn practical, life-saving medicine or one can
utilize that time to learn Torah, which of those two alternatives is the
preferred choice? The fact that one is supposed to *interrupt* Torah study
for other mitzvos does not take away from the clear decision by Chazal that
'Gadol Talmud Torah M'hatzolas Nifoshas'. So if one can choose an
alternative that halachically lessens the chances of those *interruptions*
that is the preferred choice.

>This is not a TUM versus Torah only discussion, and I am sorry if I
>seemed to suggest that is was.  It is about something even more
>fundamental.  Should members of our society be taking time out to form a
>Zaka, or should we all shrug our shoulders when there is nobody around
>to do that kind of work because everybody has been commanded to be in
>yeshiva all the time, and this takes out of yeshiva time.  Should there
>be anybody out there protecting graves in Eastern Europe, why are they
>not in yeshiva? Etc etc etc.

You're making a fundamental error. Assuredly one interrupts Torah study for
those mitzvos, and just as assuredly Torah study is preferred over those
mitzvos, so if one can lessen the chances of those interruptions that is the
best alternative.  

>Now if you answer that indeed some people ought to be out there being a
>Zaka or protecting graves, then surely the same answer must be, some
>people need to be out there being a medic.  Now are those people
>protecting graves or being involved in Zaka second class citizens?  I
>think most people would say not,  that they are indeed doing what Hashem
>commanded them to do.  Should the Gra be one of those people?  I think
>most people would agree that the Gra should not be, that there are other
>people to do that work, and yet other people cannot manage the level of
>chiddush of the Gra, and therefore, the correct division of labour is to
>have the Gra in yeshiva and certain other people out of it.

For some reason, which I cannot fathom, you are including chiddush as a
relevant criteria. This is mistaken, as chiddush is not part of the criteria
in the Mitzvah of Talmud Torah. If one has the choice to either join Zaka or
to fulfill the Mitzvah of Talmud Torah, it is preferred to learn. Regardless
of this person's level of learning, as long as it can be called Torah, which
does *not* require chiddush, (someone who learns and understands Gemara
fulfills this, without any chiddushim necessary), this learning is preferred
over his joining Zaka.

>The more
>difficult question becomes how many, and who?  What should Mr ordinary
>do?  Should he assume that maybe he is a Gra, or that if it is good
>enough for the Gra it is good enough for him, or should he be open to
>the possibility that maybe *his* skills are best applied outside the
>yeshiva.

One's abilities do not have to approach the Gra's, so this is a moot
question.

If the choice is between learning and training to save lives, learning is
preferred. If OTOH, someone who is not planning on learning (for whatever
reason; be it parnassah, lack of interest, etc.) and the choice is between x
and training to save lives (TTSL), then TTSL is preferred.  

>So let us agree that in regard to this aspect, we are not talking about
>a Gra. We are talking about a Mr Ordinary, or somewhat above ordinary
>but well short of a Gra level of ability.  The question for Mr Ordinary
>is, should he stay in yeshiva all his life, and not explore to see
>whether a) his skills are better served outside it (maybe he is not an
>Ordinary as a medic) or b) explore whether the world needs more medics,
>so that even if he is only ordinary as a medic, if there is a shortage,
>maybe that is where he ought to be.

You are no longer discussing the question of whether Torah study or TTSL is
preferable, but have gone on to a totally different question. Should someone
learn all his life?

The short answer is: If he can, he should. There is nothing more preferable
for him to do. Nothing. Not even TTSL.

The long answer is: Not everyone is capable of this, for a variety of
reasons, so these make the previous "If he can..." to "he can't". Once
someone is not learning, there is a myriad of factors on how to decide on
what to do; from personal inclination (some people like different
occupations better), to ruchnistikah reasons. 

>Ie should we assume as a basic that everybody is commanded by Hashem to
>be in yeshiva full time, and that it is only those people who
>demonstrate that they cannot cope who have therefore demonstrated that
>they should be in a Zaka or doing other things, or should we assume that
>some people who may be able to cope with yeshiva, but are really only
>ordinary, might actually do better if they were using other skills out
>of it, eg as a medic, and that in fact that is really what Hashem
>commanded that particular person to do.

Well, there is a Mitzvah of Talmud Torah and nowhere do we find a criteria
of "if the person has greater talents doing something besides for learning".
The Torah makes it clear that Mitzvah of Talmud Torah is what should be
done, when one *can do* it. Nowhere do we find the criteria of "would I be
better at something else?". So yes, all those who can, should learn, whether
in a yeshiva or not is immaterial. All those who can't should do what they
need to do. 

KT,
MSS