[Avodah] AishDas and Mussar

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, March 15, 2007 7:05 pm, Daniel Israel wrote:
:>You are right, I did underplay the number of derakhim that can't
:>be deepened through mussar. Brisk (outside of RYBS and RAS) is a more
:>mainstream example among contemporary O Jews of a derekh that values
:>seichel to the near exclusion of dimyon.

:>R' Itzele Blazer was physically evicted from Vilozhin by talmidim
:>who chanted "A blatt gemara iz de bester mussar seifer."  The
:>two worldviews can't be added.

: OTOH, the Ramchal, who is the author of _the_ classic mussar sefer,
: emphasizes very strongly the seichel (I'm thinking of derech HaShem
: here, but it's true of Mesilas Yesharim as well).  So I don't think
: that  the distinction can be drawn as sharply as you say.  Even R'
: Chaim of Vilozhin wasn't saying that mussar was not a real part of
: Torah, he was, IMHO, suggesting that what needed to be learned
: could be absorbed by learning gemara.

First, this was well after Rav Chaim Vilozhiner's day. Rav Chaim was niftar
before Mussar split off from the yeshiva movement. R' Yitzchaq Blazer / R'
Itzele Petersburger was a talmid of RYS, who was a talmid of R' Zundel
Salanter, who was a talmid of R' Chaim Vilozhiner.

Given that both movements show ancestry to RCV, I am not sure he shared the
sentiment you ascribe to him, in either of our understandings. I am not even
sure the Rosh Yeshiva of the time (the Netziv?) did -- students who carry a
gadol out of the building are rarely acting on the direction of their rebbe.

I think we need to distinguish Derekh Hashem from Mesilas Yesharim. One is a
philosophy text, the other a mussar one. I am a firm believer in engaging
seikhel, dimyon and emotions; I would expect the Ramchal didn't mean one to
the exclusion of the other. The question is whether he intended Mesilas
Yesharim to be a seikhel excercise, or a dimyon one. Looking at the haqdamah
and pereq 1 (which is an overview), I didn't see indication one way or the
other.

But more importantly, I did NOT define mussar as placing dimyon, emotion, the
ecstatic experience, to the exclusion of seichel. Actually, I defined
chassidus as having that tendency, finding a full expression in Bretslov. I
also just now identified Brisk as showing the opposite tendency -- by which I
mean Brisker derekh, not Rav Chaim as a whole person. Both in contrast to
mussar, which promotes a fusion -- one needs the use of dimyon and experience
to change one's middos, but one needs the use of seikhel and the Litvisher
focus on learning (although perhaps not always the same set of texts) to know
what to change them to!

On a number of occasions, RYBS told a story about RCBrisker that sounds like a
typical RYS story. I found a version at
<http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/jo/tpersonality/rebchaim.html>,
originally a JO article by R Chaim Leib Balgly:
: The Jewish "Bund" had played a large role in the 1905 laborers' revolt
: against the Czar's government. The Czar suppressed the revolt and had all
: the offenders shot. Furthermore he issued a decree, that if a "proclamation"
: should be found in anyone's possession, that person should be shot on the
: spot.

: Once, Erev Yorn Kippur, two Jewish Bundists were caught, bearing
: "proclamations" on their persons. They were arrested and placed in jail.
: Their trial - and certain death - was scheduled for the next day. When Reb
: Chaim learned of this, he immediately contacted some wealthy men who had
: connections with the army, instructing them to arrange for food to be given
: to the prisoners; in addition, they should use all their contacts, and make
: every effort to save these youths.

: The men did as Reb Chaim requested, and notified him that there was a
: possibility of freeing the men with 10,000 rubles. Where does one get 10,000
: rubles - a huge sum of money, especially in those poverty-stricken times?
: Time was running out, and the lives of these unfortunate youths were hanging
: in the balance. Reb Chaim dispatched messengers to all shuls and yeshivos,
: batei midrashim and shtieblach, to convene a meeting of the gabboim
: (trustees). At the meeting, Reb Chaim established a fixed amount for each
: shul to raise by that very same evening, and also decreed that Kol Nidrei
: not be said until he would give the word.

: That evening, the money was brought to Reb Chaim's house. When they had
: collected the entire amount, Reb Chaim sent the shammos to notify the
: various shuls that Kol Nidrei could be said ... and the boys were, of
: course, freed.

Chillul YK to save anti-Torah Communists from a punishment of a crime,
treason, of which they were actually guilty.

Brisker Derekh worked for Rav Chaim because he didn't need to get his middos
from a book. Halevai that were true of living our milieu. Rav Yisrael Salanter
didn't think that was true for the masses in Litta in the 19th cent. It's
certainly orders of magnitude more difficult to do so today.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha at aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter