[Avodah] VeHaGita - Proof....sources and quotes

[Shoshana L. Boublil]

From: "SBA" <sba at sba2.com>
To: "Shoshana L. Boublil" <toramada at bezeqint.net>; "The General Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: VeHaGita - Proof....sources and quotes


> From: "Shoshana L. Boublil"
> > RSB: Who was it that said that saying Shma in the morning and Shma in the
> > evening is sufficient to be Yotzeh "Vehagita Bo Yomam VaLayla"?  Last I
> > checked, it was in the G'mara...
> 
> SBA > That is a bedieved - and not lekatchileh.
> 
> Proof?....sources and quotes).

> As if that's gonna make the slightest difference..

And this is highly insulting. And PUBLIC. 

[del] 
> and you'll see that it quotes RY beshem Rashbi that it is OSSUR to
> mention this (that saying Shma in the morning and evening is sufficient
> to be Yotzeh "Vehagita Bo Yomam VaLayla")  to an am haaretz
> (because they will REALLY think this is enough - and won't send
> their sons to study Torah, Rashi).
 
> Which shows us that
> 1) the baal hamemreh himself, Rashbi holds that it is a bedieved
> and therefore should not be publicised.

Actually -- it doesn't.  We'll get to that in a moment.

> And 2) his was concerned were that amaretazim will use it as an
>  excuse not to do serious learning...

Which proves that it is NOT BeDi'eved(!!!) as you'll see shortly.
 
> The gemara there continues and says beshem Rava -
> "MITZVA le'omro bifnei am haaretz"   (Rashi: "..desavar (the AH)
> krias shema notel s'char godol kezeh...im haya osek kol hayom
>  (baTorah) kol-sheken shes'choroy gadol, umargil
> es banav letalmud Torah..)

So let's analyse this:

A. All sides agree that "VeHaGita Bo Yomam VaLayala" is fully kept by saying Shma morning and evening.
Interestinly enough, NONE of the opinions you bring disagree with this.

This means that MeLeChatChilla -- VeHagita IS indeed halachically fulfilled by saying Shma morning and night.

B. Now we have an educational issue: We want people to learn Torah and to send their children to learn Torah.  

The reason is NOT b/c of the issue of VeHagita.  That is agreed.  But from a philosophical view -- the more Torah learned, people will become closer to Hashem; the better people will behave; the more mitzvot of other sorts they will keep; -- it will be a better world.

Apparently, at the time in question, learning Torah is not a common pastime. They have a problem: many people, in their times, would use any excuse to get out of learning themselves, or sending their kids to school.

Actually, this was true for most of history.  The idea of sending kids to school from childhood till adulthood is VERY new. If you read biographies of Gedolim, (uncensored) and other people of their time, you will find that unless the kid was exceptional, and someone could foot the bill, at around 11-12, the kid was sent to apprentice and/or sent out to work. (apparently, they weren't Choshesh for VeHagita.... which means that they knew the truth).

Nowadays, this is NOT the issue.  If a father doesn't send his kids to school, he'll be facing police charges. But we'll get back to this later.

The question facing them was whether or not to publicize this halacha -- that VeHagita is fulfilled by saying Shma morning and night. Remember, they didn't have tv, radio, parshat Hashavua sheets etc.  What they didn't publicly state -- wasn't known.

There are two views on this issue:
View A: Do NOT tell them.  By their very nature Am HaRatzim will use any excuse to NOT study, and we don't want to give them this excuse.

View B: TELL them!!! If they realize how much Sachar they get just for saying Shema, it will motivate them to learn more, b/c they will want this additional Sachar.

Notice, that nobody says that if they don't actually learn Torah night and day they are doing an Aveira.  It is agreed that Halachically Shma twice a day is sufficient, but we have here an issue of public policy which has to be addressed.

=============================

Let's jump forward some hundreds of years and reach our times.

Many use the sentence of "VeHagita" to demand that men learn day and night as much as possible as an halachic imperitive.  The situation is not that people won't learn, but rather, this idea is used in an almost abusive form to force people who are tortured by this demand of full time study for years (to the extent that some  lie and cheat so that people will believe they are studying when they are not).  This non-halacha, has been used to abuse women into becomeing Super Women: mothers, giving birth nearly every year, wives, homemakers and breadwinners.  For all the quasi-halachic arguments, the truth is that Chazal stated categorically that the man is obligated to MeFarnace his family, not the wife.

So, nowadays, the problem of the G'mara is not ours.  We have the reverse problem.  It is indeed time that we told people the truth: VeHagita means that you should study as much as possible (without abusing anyone!!!!) but that you are definitely Yotzeh MiLeChatChilla if you say Shma twice a day.

In our current society, nobody will take their children out of school if they know that this is the Halacha.  The states, around the world, require that children study from early childhood until adulthood.  Our problems are not the problems that were facing the rabbis in the abovementioned G'mara.

Torah is about truth.  It's about time that being Chareid LiDevar Hashem meant seeking truth in halacha and life as well.

Shoshana L. Boublil