[Avodah] zman hadloko erev Shabbos and motzoei Shabbos

[Zev Sero]

A & C Walters wrote:

>>> You are right. The Gr"o himself makes this point, that the zman daled
>>> mil is only in Bavel/EY. However he is a daas yochid in this point.

>> Daas Yochid?  What is the Baal Hatanya, chopped liver?

> The Baal HaTanya in Shulchan Oruch HaRav paskens like R"T. In Siddur he 
> (apparently) paskens like the Gr"o.

The Siddur is mishna acharona; what he wrote in his Sh"A is irrelevant.
And there's no "apparently" about it. He explicitly rejects RT's
opinion as "neged hachush", and says that the Mechaber also changed
his mind.



> Daas Yochid was meant as "minority 
> opinion" as opposed to its literal meaning of "only one and not two"

Rav tana hu upalig.  Two such "yechidim" count for a lot.


>> And any shita that ignores this fact cannot be taken into account, no
>> matter how many achronim, ignorant of astronomy, thought that way.

> It is forbidden to say such a thing. The Gedolei Achronim and Sh"Or
> knew far more astronomy than we. I am sure they know the facts, and
> never the less, they do not mention any reason to be mechalek (nor
> do the rishonim) .

Those who knew what they were talking about certainly must have
distinguished between different latitudes.  If they didn't say so
explicitly, it can only be because they thought it obvious.  But what
makes you say that all of them knew astronomy?  It's pretty obvious
that a lot of them did not.  And those who were led by this lack to
opinions which simply cannot be, must be ignored, just like those
late 19th and early 20th century poskim who wrote about electricity,
but whose words make it clear that they hadn't a clue how it worked.


> If you don't want to pasken like them, that's one thing, but to call
> them ignorant, and that one cannot take them into account, that 
> is forbidden to say.

Forbidden?  There were many chachamim gedolim who were utterly
ignorant of certain basic facts about the world, and were led by
that ignorance to pasken incorrectly.  That is a fact, which you
have to deal with.  You can't hide from it by closing your eyes
and shouting "ossur".


> Don't forget that a halocho can overrule a metzius (for example to
> make an iber yor, which means a girl turns 3 a month later, but
> the besulim grow back a month later)

Um, no, they don't.  They really don't.  Her halachic status changes,
because the 3-year cutoff is a completely arbitrary shiur, just like
all the shiurim the chachamim taught us; but her hymen remains exactly
the same.


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev at sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas