[Avodah] 12 Step Programs

[Mike Miller]

On 10/5/06, Moshe Yehuda Gluck <mgluck at gmail.com> wrote:
> R' MB:
> > Here's a version anotated with my concerns:
> > > 1.   We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives
> > had
> > become unmanageable
>
> This one always bothered me. And, as a founder of aishdas.org, I'm not sure
> why it doesn't bother you. Don't we believe that a person can master his
> actions? And, if it's past our nekudas habechirah, then aren't we not
> responsible?

I think that AA says that a person can master his action, but that in
the past, he'd failed to do so. Notice that it says "were powerless."

> > > 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact
> > nature
> > of our wrongs
> >
> > And who would think I would complain about a cheshbon hanefesh or vidui?
>
> Vidui to Hashem and ourselves is A-OK. But vidui to another human being is
> not - on an Avierah not publicly known - ayin OC 607:2 and the MB there.

Then at least limit it to known aveiros. I suppose there are two ways
to read AA's idea of another person: either as a substitute for a
priest, or, more likely IMHO, as a way to make sure the person
actually does it, and does so seriously. After all, we can lie to
ourselves easily, and we can even (try) to lie to Hashem, but lying to
another person can be much harder. (I'm not, C"V, saying that one can
get away with lying to Hashem, but rather that there's usually no
immediate feedback / warning. When one lies to another person, they
listener can challenege them right on the spot).

-- Mike Miller
Ramat Bet Shemesh