[Avodah] Bnei Noach

[Zev Sero]

Micha Berger wrote:
> On Thu, October 26, 2006 3:05 pm, R Zev Sero wrote:
> : Inventing a new religion, it seems to me, is assur to a BN for the
> : same reason that it's assur to us; it is a denial of the Torah, and
> : therefore against the things all humans are required to believe.
> : This fits in with the fact that BN not only have to actually keep
> : the 7M, but must do so because Hashem told Moshe Rabbenu that they
> : must....
> 
> This requirement is specifically the Rambam's, though. AFAIK, it's a da'as
> yachid.

Is it?  Who disputes it?  If the Rambam is the only one to express
an opinion on the subject, then it doesn't qualify as a daat yachid.



> : This means that they must believe in the truth of Mattan
> : Torah and of the Torah itself, just as we must....
 
> Which Notzrim and Moslems do, to varying extents.

The problem is the extent to which they don't.  Both of their
religions require denying at least some of the Torah.  The Moslems
openly say that the Torah that is in our hands is a forgery, that
we and the Xians cobbled together after the rise of Islam.  The
Xians are more subtle, not denying the truth of any part of the
Torah as such, but ignoring "vezot hatorah", and its implication
that no part of it will be overridden by future prophetic revelation.


> I would think that since the punishment for violating any of the
> 7MBN is misah (assuming all other criteria are met, of course),
> if members of these religions aren't chayavei misah then they
> couldn't possibly be violating any of them.

The requirement to believe in the truth of the Torah is not one of
the 7 mitzvot, it's a prerequisite to them.  They can't keep the
7 mitzvot without first believing that they were commanded by Hashem
to Moshe; any accidental adherence to the mitzvot for any other reason
doesn't count as keeping them.  In the case of BY, the Rambam lists
belief in Hashem as one of the 613 mitzvot, but the classification
scheme for the 613 isn't the same as for the 7 (e.g. the issur of
arayot for BN includes six arayot, each of which is a separate item
in the 613).  The Ramban's objection to including emunah in the 613
is well known, and the defenses of the Rambam that I've seen begin
by acknowledging the Ramban's point, and explaining that the Rambam
meant something deeper.  I haven't yet seen anyone claim that yes,
we are indeed commanded to believe that there is a Commander, i.e.
that the reason to believe that He exists is because He told us to.


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev at sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas