[Avodah] halachah and history

[Lisa Liel via Avodah]

On 12/17/2015 10:09 AM, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
>> Well, if you buy into a different piece of my reasoning, that perhaps
>> those loyal to HQBH had their own appointed "kohein gadol" even though
>> a Misyavein held the title and served in a Zeusified temple, then you
>> could say that the Yochanan KG wasn't one from the list...

> Of course this is pure speculation. There is no hint the sources of a
> Cohen gadol in exile.

> Yochanan kohen gadol is depicted as being kohen gadol for 80 years,
> issuing several takanot and becoming a Sadduccee at the end of his life.

> It would seem hard to reconcile this with the father of Matisyahu and also
> being an "unofficial" cohen gadol.

Unless there was more than one Yochanan Kohen Gadol.

[Email #2. -micha]

On 12/17/2015 2:19 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:09:47AM +0200, Eli Turkel wrote:
>: Of course this is pure speculation. There is know hint the sources of a
>: Cohen gadol in exile.

> Agreed. Although (as I mentioned) there is something of a possible
> successor when they set up a Nasi to counter the Hasmonean king. IOW,
> this "we have the real KG, just as soon as he could serve" is something
> the Perushim would very plausibly do.

After all, we had a Nasi in exile.  Surely the head of the Sadducee 
Sanhedrin was called the "Nasi".  But we didn't recognize him as such.  
We didn't even record the name(s) of any such "Nasi".  When Shimon ben 
Shetach was in exile, he was still Nasi -- from our POV, though not from 
the Sadducee POV.  So is it such a stretch to say that the same was true 
of the Kohen Gadol?

Lisa