[Avodah] Definition of a Mechalel Shabbos Befarhesya

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 05:30:22PM +0200, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:
: On 12/10/2015 11:04 AM, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
: > Is it not true that the status of a Mechalel Shabbos BeFarhesya is not
: > so much a reflection upon the actual Aveira but upon the mindset?
: > The guy who smokes at home during Shabbos is ashamed to publicly
: > display his mutiny - at some level there is a degree of respect for
: > Shabbos...

: You could say that, but you could also compare it to geneiva/gezeila.
: 
: A guy who smokes at home during Shabbat is afraid of what people will say,
: but not of Hashem's judgment, while a guy who walks down the street on
: Shabbat smoking a cigar just doesn't really care.

I don't see the ddifference. Both of you are saying the MSbF is the
person who is not ashamed of his chilul Shabbos, even though every
Mechalel Shabbos is not afraid of Hashem's judgment.

Or at least, not His Judgment about chilul Shabbos. He could believe
that all good people go to heaven, and therefore his chilul Shabbos is
just giving up on the icing on the cake, overwhelmed by the other
stuff. I think that mindset is pretty common among our contemporaries.

But I am not surprised that if conversion requires both "ameikh ami,
veElokayikh Elokai", losing one's good standing requires not only sinning
in a way that brings into question the person's faith in Creation and/or
Matan Torah and/or TSBP but does so in a way that says they're also okay
not being counted in the observant community.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I thank God for my handicaps, for, through them,
micha at aishdas.org        I have found myself, my work, and my God.
http://www.aishdas.org                - Helen Keller
Fax: (270) 514-1507