[Avodah] Geocentrism

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Aug 01, 2013 at 09:36:27AM +0300, Eliyahu Grossman wrote:
: 1)      RELATIVITY: The example given by Einstein was a train moving quickly
: and a person dropping a ball, and the person on the train sees it as falling
: straight down while the person outside, looking through the glass walls sees
: it curving. However, this comparison falls apart for the geocentrist
: because, like this example, we have two data collecting and reporting
: satellites, one approaching the edge of the SOLAR system (not GEO-system),
: and one that is nearly so, which, like the observer outside of the train,
: can validate that the view of an earth-centered SOLAR system is not what is
: going on in reality, even though it is a comfortable view for some
: non-scientists.

You're conflating Special and General Relativity. Since the solar system
involves acceleration and gravity (which according to GR is redundant --
gravity in one frame of reference is acceleration in another), it's under
GR, not SR.

And indeed, deapite what you write, scientists do use both bsrycentric
and geocentric frames of reference, and there are known ways to do the
translation between them.

E.g. (first Google hit)
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/234395077_Orbit_determination_in_the_relativistic_geocentric_reference_frame

    Orbit determination in the relativistic geocentric reference frame

    J. C. Ries, C. Huang, M. M. Watkins, B. D. Tapley
    Texas, University, Austin
    Journal of the Astronautical Sciences (impact factor: 0.29). 05/1991;
    39:173-181.

    ABSTRACT The results obtained using a solar system barycentric frame or a
    geocentric frame when including the general theory of relativity in
    orbit determination for near-earth satellites should be equivalent to
    some limiting accuracy. The purpose of this paper is to present the
    model for the effects of relativity when processing satellite laser
    range data in the geocentric frame and to demonstrate the equivalence of
    the results to those obtained using the barycentric model through the
    analysis of three years of laser tracking data taken for the LAGEOS
    satellite. It is shown that the simpler formulation in the geocentric
    frame is adequate for the purpose of satellite orbit determination. A
    correction to the conventional barycentric equations of motion is also
    shown to be required.

: 2)      TIME: Since the earth is still, to the geocentrist, and slanted at
: 23.5 degrees, according to science, the Earth will have no seasons...

But it whizzes around the earth daily at a 23.5 deg angle which wobbles
during the course of one year. That wobble is caused by a second order
epicycle of the sun, which if you held the sun still would look like
the going around the sun annywally.

: 3)      SPACE: If you hold the Earth as the center, and have the moon,
: Venus, Mercury, and the sun (pick whatever order suits you) whizzing around
: the Earth...

Also approximately once daily...

: the Earth, the distance of the Earth from Mars will increase by about 800%,
: taking about 6 years to fly there from Earth...

And again there is a second motion of Mars, which matches the sun's
(above) and a third order one around the sun.

: 4)      TRUE: I asked a week ago if someone could draw a picture of a GEO
: System (versus a Solar System) where time and space will match externally
: confirmed reality. If one can be made where the sun and all of the planets
: are the same size and the same distances from one another with the same
: orbiting speeds that have been externally verified...

And while I'm not up to it, I pointed to papers that did. But the
distances and time won't be exactly the same -- relativity includes
lorentz contractions of both.

See
http://fermi.gsfc.nasa.gov/ssc/data/analysis/documentation/Cicerone/Cicerone_Pulsars/barycentric_correction.html
for a discussion of this issue WRT the Fermi Gamma Telescope. The two
frames of reference have diverged +/- 500 sec (when at maximum) since
the mission started.

...
: 5)      FALSE: Some have said that just because something is unlikely, it
: doesn't make it untrue...

I missed anyone making that argument on this discussion.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
micha at aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
Fax: (270) 514-1507      matters?              - Rav Yisrael Salanter