[Avodah] Abortion isn't Murder

[Zev Sero]

On 16/07/2013 7:05 PM, Chana Luntz wrote:
> תלמוד בבלי מסכת סנהדרין ע"ב ע"ב
> אמר רב הונא: קטן הרודף ניתן להצילו בנפשו קסבר רודף אינו צריך התראה לא שנא
> גדול לא שנא קטן. ומקשה עליו רב חסדא מהך משנה דתנן יצא ראשו אין נוגעין בו לפי
> שאין דוחין נפש מפני נפש ואמאי רודף הוא. שאני התם דמשמיא קא רדפי לה .
>
>
> 6.	Talmud Bavli Sanhedrin  72b
> 	Rav Huna said, a minor who is chasing after another to kill him, we
> are permitted to save by means of [taking] his life, as we hold that a
> person chasing after another to kill [a rodef] does not need a legal
> warning, and it is no difference whether he [the rodef] is an adult or a
> minor.  Rav Chisda asked on this from the mishna [Oholos], as it teaches
> “once its head has come out we may not touch it, because we do not push
> aside a life for a life” and why, [should it not be considered] a rodef?  It
> is different there because the mother is being pursued by heaven.

This disproves RMB's proposed diyuk of "KErodef velo rodef mamash".  If
the unborn baby were only "KErodef", then it would be obvious that once he
is born that is not enough to justify killing him.  That we need to say
that once he crowns he's no longer the rodef, Heaven is, shows that if he
*were* still the rodef, as he was five minutes ago, it would still be OK
to kill him.  It's only because the danger she's in now is natural, and
therefore not attributable to him, that he may not be killed to save her.

(By the way, this line of reasoning leads to a tremendous kula nowadays,
when dying in childbirth is no longer so common as to be considered simply
the way of nature, "from Heaven", perhaps in those uncommon cases where the
mother's life is in danger we *can* attribute it to the baby, even after he
has crowned, and consider him a rodef.)



> The Minchas Chinukh says that abortion for BN is punished with death
> because it's a 7MBN and explcitly excludes it being because it's
> retzichah mamsh.

And what does he say about hariga shel mi she'eino ben yisroel?  Look it up.

-- 
Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
zev at sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan