[Avodah] Who First Said It? 7 - Mourning during Sefirah

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 03:48:21PM +0000, rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:
: Do you have a source that issur nissuin was observed w/o the other 2
: namely tispores and m'lachah?

What issur melakhah?

I already cited the AhS which says that nissuin has been since the
geonim, whereas tispores and the rest of aveilus is a minhag that later
arose and is local to "medinos ha'eilu" (OC 493:1-3). We can trust his
survey of what the geonim actually write, at least to the exclusion
of lost teshuvos that were since found. No?

The Biur Halakhah on 493:2 quotes the Peri Megadim that omer is "lo adif
meiChhM". But in the next note he obseves that the machloqes, including
the same PM but even as far back as Tosafos (see also Taz s"q 11),
about whether haircutting is allowed on Lag BaOmer or we say ad ve'ad
bichlal is usually stated by the baalei pelugta as to being about when
R Aqiva's talmidim died.

: Also Hypothesis' sort of Addresses this:
: RRW
: > A: an alternate [hypothesis'] version is - that ChhM and Aveilus
: > were both there day one, and the minhag originally was designed to take
: > on the aspects of the common denominators

As I see it there is a dilemma: If minhagim simply evolve and then
are ratified by the rabbinate, then the kind of analysis you're doing
wouldn't work -- it assumes too much rigor.

If they are designed, then the logical conclusion is RYBS's position,
that every minhag is lifted off a matbei'ah of a din. That "there
is no ritual in Judaism" and therefore a minhag isn't a minhag if it
doesn't contain some "cheftzah shel mitzvah". (Contrary to the Brisker
Rav's chiluq that only that subset of minhagim that qualify as having
a cheftzah shel mitzvah get a berakhah.)

In which case, we would have grounds to "correct" omer and the 3 weeks
to be more like hilkhos aveilus. As RYBS did, and much of YU follows.

...
: 1 The drasha on sheva shabbassos and the term atzeres for shavuos -
: both indicating that
: 2 Since shavuos ends Passover
: therefore the intervening days are a kind of "ChhM"

Alternatively....

There are 49 days of preparation before Shemini Atzeres as well,
starting from RCh Elul.

Nissan is an is'arusa dele'eila, and therefore first comes Pesach and
only then can the 49 days begin. Teshuvah is is'arusa delesata, and
therefore Sukkos is Hashem's response as we approach the Atzeres.

Of course, this parallel isn't "real", in the sense that omer is deOraisa,
and the length of Elul and thus of "teshuvah season" is deRabban. But
then, calling Shavuos "Atzeres" is also deRabbanan. Both reflect a
parallelism that Chazal set up.

...
: Q: Dear Rabbi Wolpoe
: Why not go with the "R Akiva" hypothesis?

: A: Well the Talmud does mention the deaths but NOT the minhag - suggesting
: that the connection may have been retrofitted later

Lehefech, it shows there was no minhag to retro to. The minhag came
later than the deaths, but that doesn't mean the reason for the minhag
when it first began was or wasn't the deaths. The first mention of the
minhag of issur nissuin is in the same geonim who are the first mention of
the association with talmidei R' Aqiva. There is no grounds for opening
the question of RETROfitting..

What one can argue, like the Ari might, that the reason for the minhag
is the death of R' Aqiva's talmidim -- but that connection isn't one of
aveilus in particular. But that would explain tispores more than weddings,
and we have no reason to question the AhS's observation that the geonim
only mention nissuin, not tispores. If the Ari haQadosh were speaking
of aveilus, then it could be an explanation of why the aveilus deepened
to include tispores. But it doesn't cover the initial version of the
minhag.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 17th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        2 weeks and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Tifferes sheb'Tifferes: What is the ultimate
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              state of harmony?