[Avodah] secular law

[Eli Turkel]

<<It's clear that monetary laws could run according to SA, but it's also clear
that criminal law could NOT run according to basic Torah law.>>


<<The King (and according to R' Kook IIUC any authority the people
designate for leadership)
has the responsibility for civil order and would set up a system
designed to ensure its maintenance (makin vonshin...)>>

As I have pointed out several times it is far from clear that monetary
laws could
run according to SA. Some examples are transfer of funds by wire and
hence all inter-bank
transfers. There is no kinyan and in many cases it is done completely
by computer without
any human intervention. If one cannot make a kinyan on davar shelo ba
le-olam then one
cannot have long term planning and building a factory or machine that
takes a long time and one
needs to stabilize the price. Most stock market techniques are illegal. etc.

The Ran discusses at length the din of the melech (assuming it works
in EY). I always have found
it strange that it is advocated to get around din Torah and then
lambasted for avoiding din Torah.
In any case according to the Ran the idea is that the king can set up
his own courts not relying
on SA. So in essence we have secular law with a stamp of halacha.
Doesn't rely answer the question.
makin vonshin. shelo min hadin is meant as a temporary measure not as
a way of permamently
avoiding a din Torah. In any case its use is limited to cases where
public welfare is at stake
not for the run-of-the-mill criminal. According to the opinions I have
seen it cannot be
used to legitimize a transaction without a kinyan. i.e. in certain
cases one can use a kinyan based
on standard practices, eg a handshake. It is debateable how far this
extends. In any case
it cannot establish that no kinyan is necessary.

Even if all this does work as in the previous example you are just
using secular law and justifying it
according to halacha. It still avoids SA.



-- 
Eli Turkel