[Avodah] tannur shel achnai

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 02:31:52PM -0700, Saul.Z.Newman at kp.org wrote:
: http://www.springbird.net/  on the similarity between uncertainty of 
: reality in physics,  and in halacha, as demonstrated  by the upcoming 
: gmara 
: lecture with sourcesheets 

I too noted the similarity, but I think that drawing a parallel to QM
superposition of states is a more grandiose claim than necessary. First,
because there is nothing like a chi wave that is a function whose value
for a given point in space and time is a complex number whose magnitude
squared gives probability.

Second, because there isn't even clarity that the model involves
statistics at all. For example, sefeiq sefeiqa would become rov is we
map uncertainty to statistics. However, that would also mean that safeiq
plus mi'ut would become rov -- 50% + 5% is still greater than 50%. But
in practice, mi'ut bemaqom sofeiq lo amrinan!

Rather, I think (as per the Maharal) that eilu va'ilu is the effect of
our having minds that are more limited than the Divrei E-lokim Chaim
under discussion. Each is therefore a limited model, what we can fit
into our realities of an Infinite Divine Thought. The question is like
asking how the same statue could case two drastically different shadows
depending upon which angle you shine your light upon it.

And I think that uncertainty WRT birur metzi'us has to do with how
people think about cheftzos and pe'ulos whose actual state is in doubt.
We can entertain and be worried of conflicting possibilities about the 
same object at the same time -- until we determine which is true.

That creates the same parallel without involving the
incomprehensibilities of QM. I know it lacks the excitement...

BTW, if the topic interests you, see the 5 issues of Higayon editted by
R' Moshe Koppel before it got folded into BDD (and shrunk).

As for my own positions, here are the blog entries:
Eilu vaEilu:
    <http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2005/03/eilu-vaeilu-part-ii.shtml> (part I
    is the research of more informed minds)

The role of knowledge in defining metzi'us:
    http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2009/03/halakhah-phenomenology-1.shtml
	on microsopic bugs and birkhas hachamah -- the gap between what
	is, and what we relate to (microscopic bugs are, but we can't
	experience them and birkhas hachamah's tequfah isn't, but we
	relate to it anyway)
    http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2009/04/halakhah-phenomenology-2.shtml
	on the difference between once-perceived metzi'us (qavu'ah,
	eidus) and never perceived yet perceivable in principle (safeiq)
    http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2009/04/halakhah-and-phenomenology-3.shtml
	safeiq and rov and why "'isah' lashon safeiq hi"
    http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2009/04/halakhah-and-phenomenology-4.shtml
	qavu'ah as a kind of qavu'ah logic, and the difference between
	ranking birur by which is more recent vs which refers to
	metzi'us and which refers to din in cases of doubt

I have yet to write part 5 -- if halakhah is about what a person knows
or is responsibile for not knowing, what about metaphysical effects of
what's really there?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "Fortunate indeed, is the man who takes
micha at aishdas.org        exactly the right measure of himself,  and
http://www.aishdas.org   holds a just balance between what he can
Fax: (270) 514-1507      acquire and what he can use." - Peter Latham