[Avodah] Madoff scandal

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:20:36AM -0500, T613K at aol.com wrote:
: I wonder what the chevra think about Madoff's sons turning him in? ...

I fail to see the question.

He wasn't done robbing people. Is there anyone who thinks they are
halachically supposed to let him continue to bankrupt investors and
charities?

Now, in the hypothetical case where they weren't precenting further
robbery...

RnTK suggests the following issues:
:                                              Dina demalchusa?   Or mesira?  
: What about kibud av?

Mesirah has been discussed a lot lately, in light of efforts
to rid our communities of child abusers. RHS discusses it at
<http://www.torahweb.org/torah/special/2007/rsch_mesirah.html>, which is a
followup to <http://www.torahweb.org/audioFrameset.html#audio=rsch_120306>
titled "Regarding mesirah".

> If, however, one is guilty of a crime, and according to the law of the
> land deserves a prison sentence, or will be put to death, even though
> according to Jewish law his punishment would not be as severe, this is
> not mesirah (see Ritva to Bava Metsia 83b; Dvar Avraham vol. I pg. 8).
> ... In an instance of avoiding a chilul Hashem, just like we would
> be obligated to return the aveidas akum, so too we would be obligated
> to hand over this individual (see Rama, Choshen Mishpat 388:12).

> If the non-Jewish governmental authorities know that one Jew is
> concealing information about another Jew in order to save him from
> punishment, the Shulchan Aruch (Choshen Mishpat 28:3) considers this a
> situation of chilul Hashem...

> Even if one is guilty of a crime and deserves a punishment according to
> the laws of the land, but due to anti-semetic attitudes he will probably
> suffer more than if he were a non-Jew; or, the (state) prison conditions
> are such that he will suffer at the hands of the other inmates (or at
> the hands of the guards) in a manner that is not proscribed by law, then
> turning the offender in would constitute mesirah... However, mesirah
> is permitted in situations where one is a public menace (see Shach to
> Choshen Mishpat 388, 59), or if one is physically or psychologically
> harming another individual ... (see Shach to Choshen Mishpat ibid, 45).

> The Jewish community does not have the ability to investigate these
> types of cases. Wherever there are raglayim ladavar that there seems
> to be a problem, the proper government agencies should be contacted to
> investigate.

Of course, RHS ends with an admonition to go ask a poseiq who actually
knows the subject if the topic arises.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Time flies...
micha at aishdas.org                    ... but you're the pilot.
http://www.aishdas.org                       - R' Zelig Pliskin
Fax: (270) 514-1507